To be or not to be - Crosstown Freeways & High Rises (Phoenix: neighborhoods, tornadoes)

[azdr0710]

Originally Posted by coatimundi

My main question with the east-west crosstown freeway has always been: where would it go? You want to rush people from I-10 to Saguaro National Park at 75 mph?

if one were to be built (and it won't), it certainly wouldn't go anywhere near Redington Pass, Saguaro Park or the Rincons.....it would probably connect the far SE side from I-10 via Kolb or Houghton to the NW side via the Rillito River (I know, will never happen) or along Grant somehow up to River Rd or something to I-10 at Orange Grove (but don't hold your breath).....

it just isn't a crisis yet and that's what is needed to change minds....

[robabeatle]

How about a tunnel freeway that follows the Rillito River?

Just dont drive there during late July!

[tumamoc]

The Rillito/River Road area won't work. The NIMBYs there have money and a lot of influence. They won't allow the viewshed to be diminished.

[acatalanb]

I enjoy reading all the comments.

Extending the light rail would probably be a nice substitute for a crosstown freeway but then people love to drive their cars.

The NIMBY's are just so powerful in this city. It's a city NOT a town.

And I'm hoping for more comments.

[azdr0710]

when it comes right down to it, we're all NIMBYs in some way....

[Valley Native]

Tucson needs more freeways. The few times I have been down that way, it took seemingly forever to get around on the surface streets. But if I remember correctly, Tucson residents voted down a freeway initiative a few years ago. There was opportunity to build at least one crosstown or loop freeway long before sprawling development took over. Oh, well. If the NIMBYs enjoy slow, congested, stop & go type of traffic, that's their problem. I'm just glad I don't live in Tucson for the traffic issues alone.

Regarding highrises: they usually doesn't require a public vote because they are mostly funded and constructed by private firms. If Tucson wishes to attract more reputable firms to base their HQs, or become more of a national hub for business, I'm sure taller buildings will be needed. Also, if more people wish to live downtown, there will be a need for more highrise residential towers. Again, the public shouldn't have to decide on those things. If the demand is there, then developers have the privilege of building whatever they want without the damn NIMBYs dictating matters.

[coatimundi]

There was no freeway initiative. ADOT has put out a couple of new freeway proposals relative to Tucson in a conceptual sense over the past few years, including an I-10 bypass that brought a freeway to connect to the I-10/I-8 interchange (I don't know what happened to that) and a freeway running mostly down Sahuarita Road to connect I-19 to I-10. The latter was mostly shot down in local public meetings. In any freeway proposal in Tucson, environmental impact and ROW acquisition are the major hurdles.
There was also an ADOT study commissioned to look into the possibility of a loop freeway, partially running down Houghton Road. You can read about that here: Houghton Road Corridor Study

Before the crash, there were several high-rise and mid-rise projects on the books. Contrary to what you may think, the public is actually very involved in the development process, because the project must first be approved by a zoning board, often for a variance, and are put through a slew of public meetings. Developers at that time would often pull the projects out of frustration for the slow, very public process they would have to go through to even get the proposal moving forward. An example of that was the mixed-use Speedway/Stone project, which was heavily opposed by the adjacent Douglas Spring neighborhood group. Then there was the Nimbus brewery condo project that WAMO stalled to the point that the Nimbus owner went in front of a council meeting in tears to effectively pull the project.
Tucson is not kind to developers, partially because people want quality not quantity. They want to ensure things are done right, but often take it a little too far. Something I would see a lot during the boom was the request for up to 33% affordable housing, which is kind of unreasonable considering what the developers needed to price units at to make up the construction cost (should have been a red flag to everyone then, but...).

But there were a number of mostly mid-rise projects which were approved but were never built, including the Post Lofts, Plaza Centro, Presidio Terrace, 44 Broadway and a few others. Plaza Centro was altered and actually is being built (I've heard as student housing), with part of it recently constructed as a parking garage at the corner of Congress and 4th. Additionally, there's the project that destroyed the Muse art space facility on 6th Street and left a giant, fenced-off hole in the ground for years, that is now becoming a mid-rise student housing complex.

[acatalanb]

Not sure if a crosstown freeway will be in the horizon but I think more high rises will be built downtown given the desperation for tax revenues and construction jobs. I believe several 10+ story buildings are being proposed close to the UofA. The light rail will more than likely add more high rises along it's path. Hopefully, those high rises are of high quality and aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Tucson has more than enough man made crap IMHO.

[Jimrob1]

When I visited Tucson I wonderd why the majority of the driving means long surface streets with light after light. I can understand not wanting to be overrun with fwy's, but Tuscon is rather sprawled out and getting more so. It definitely is not a compact city/Metro. So do surface streets really do the job? I seemed to have spent alot of time sitting at lights and the resulting traffic.

I'm just visiting though so I can only wonder why. Its not my right to say fwys should be built or not. When I talked to residents of Tucson while there, many seemed frustrated by the lack of, and for more reasons than just getting around. Seemed everyone mentioned the time it took to cross the city from one end to the other.

So I have a few questions. First one. Who actually benefits from the lack of fwys? The second question. Tuscon obviously is growing so people need jobs. Does the lack of fwys put a damper on companies and businesses relocating there? I have heard some people will not live there, because they could not deal with the difficulties of getting around. So is the lack of roads a method of controlling population and or business growth?

So I don't understand and I'm curious. Thats human nature. I think its a great thing to be able to function without a crisscross of fwys as in many cities. I sincerly mean that. I just don't know if the lack of is better than having them if economies may be involved. Mainly because I have never seen a city in America, with a population as high as Tucson with so few fwys. Who benefits in the long term from a lack of fwys now and in the future in Tucson? A Metro with a sizeable population that is growing in population unlike some areas of the country. I'm not sure how the local enconomy is at the present time. Thanks.

[Marcy1210]

Colorado Springs is laid out basically like Tucson. I-25 is on the extreme west side of town, and there is no other freeway/interstate in, around or through the city. It has the same growth and sprawl issues of Tucson, only to the east and north, rather than the west. For years, people have asked for some sort of E/W cross town freeway, but there is no feasible way to build one. It would have to go through the heart of the city, and basically replace Hwy 24, which is an E/W business loop through the city before it resumes being a four lane Hwy east and west of the city. But, there would be so much eminent domain, NIMBY's, ROW and other issues, that it wouldn't be worth the money, time and trouble to build. As with Tucson, it would have to be approved by the City Council, Zoning Commission, variances would have to be granted, and there would have to be a ballot issue asking for an increased mill levy or a sales tax to pay for it. The chances of all that happening are slim, and even if it were passed, by the time it was finished and operational (probably 5+ years or more), it would be obsolete due to the rate of population growth. That happened with the widening of I-25 through Colorado Springs from North to South. It took so many years (plus eminent domain, housing condemnation and demolition, cone zones, congestion and construction slow downs) to widen it, build sound walls, and improve lighting, etc., that almost as soon as it was finished, more lanes were needed. And that was for an existing Interstate, like it was here for I-10 a couple of years ago. I think the smarter way to go here in Tucson would be light rail with Park and Ride locations along its route. If it ran parallel to either Speedway or Broadway, with stops every few blocks, it might help alleviate crosstown traffic between I-10 and Houghton or maybe even farther east.