Nimby's in Tucson (Phoenix, Oro Valley: transplants, home, neighborhoods)

[tijlover]

Nimby: Not in my backyard!

As I'm planning to move there, I'm curious about the neighborhood activist groups, who will often find any reason to kill a development, and oftentimes done for very selfish reasons. Which areas are they the most powerful and controlling? And has there been any potential developments that have been derailed as a result of them?

I originally come from Minneapolis where they control everything in that city.

When I lived in Phoenix, in an historic district, with no neighborhood bars in sight, someone proposed opening a bar on McDowell, and the neighborhood group shot that proposal down with machine guns!

So, curiously, what's it like in Tucson? Big If, If I had the money to develop a midrise overlooking Reid Park (an area I would like to live) along 22nd Street, would the neighborhood groups praise me to the skies, bring their shovels to the ground-breaking, or chase me out of town?

[swbrotha100]

Tucson has notoriously killed a lot of projects, partly to keep development and growth away. Growth still happened there anyway. The most controversial building projects tend to be potential student housing around the University of Arizona and stuff in the downtown area.

[mkuu]

Certainly nimbys abound in neighborhoods ,cities and towns all across the country.There are countless examples of residents acting vigorously to advance their own interests and values,sometimes stalling or killing proposals that might change things where they live.Are they obstructionists,environmentalists,historical preservationists,soreheads or local heroes?Actually it depends on your own interests and convictions doesn't it.

It's worth noting that In Tucson a critical element in stalled or defeated development projects is taxpayer resistance.Not quite the same thing as nimby actions.Lots of residents in Tucson oppose projects that are nowhere near their backyard because they don't wish to pay for them.

[kirk99]

Tucson is similar to an adult that refused to grow up. Tucson has grown so fast and yet, it has the mentality of a small town.

@swbrotha100, I agree. Surprisingly, there's been constant construction of buildings in and around downtown. It remains to be seen if that continues. Just like a kid who can't decide what to do in life, Tucson fluctuates between growth and anti-growth modes over the decades. And yes, the anti-growth folks have been on the winning end over the decades.

@tijlover, if you ever build a mid-rise at 22nd street across Reid Park, my guess here is that the neighborhood around that area will welcome you with open arms right at THIS moment. Reid Park is very nice but the area across 22nd st. isn't . In fact, most of 22nd st, is nowhere impressive aesthetically.

@mkuu, whatever reason for stalled development, Tucson Nimby's have been extremely successful over the decades (not years but DECADES ). Tucson has so much potential to be an above average city with it's rich history and A+ God given environment. Too bad the NIMBY's ruined it.

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by mkuu

Certainly nimbys abound in neighborhoods ,cities and towns all across the country.There are countless examples of residents acting vigorously to advance their own interests and values,sometimes stalling or killing proposals that might change things where they live.Are they obstructionists,environmentalists,historical preservationists,soreheads or local heroes?Actually it depends on your own interests and convictions doesn't it.

It's worth noting that In Tucson a critical element in stalled or defeated development projects is taxpayer resistance.Not quite the same thing as nimby actions.Lots of residents in Tucson oppose projects that are nowhere near their backyard because they don't wish to pay for them.

I totally agree. In my years in Arizona I've watched politically connected builders spread cookie-cutter suburban housing developments all over the desert. But when it comes to investing some money in the commercial areas that SERVE the citizens who live in them, they are nowhere to be found. They just let strip malls sprout up with little control and no attention whatsoever to aesthetics. Oro Valley is one exception to that — but the citizens there pay more in taxes than other places, which is anathema to many in Southern Arizona.

As mkuu says, it's not one negative mentality that is impeding Tucson, it is several. Those who have mentioned the schizophrenic attitude Tucsonans have toward GROWTH for the city are also on the money. They say, "Tucson is great. Tucson is paradise." It has many fine characteristics but ... seriously? And any improvements suggested to make it more like Eden are looked at 12 ways to Sunday until whomever suggested the improvement skulks away. The ballyhooed new trolley is an example. It was chosen from many alternatives because it harks back to the trolleys of yore. It's charming. Yes. It's also an inefficient form of public transportation that costs a fortune given the tiny segment of the area it serves. But, hey, at least no one will accuse Tucson of being innovative.

I'm not going to go on about it, but please don't forget Rio Nuevo. A bigger waste of taxpayer dollars I've seldom seen — and this in a state that prides itself on not collecting a penny of tax that is not of dire need. The shenanigans that have gone on in the administration of the Rio Nuevo downtown "improvement" plan vie with Chicago and Boston in terms of developer/politician backscratching while the money peters away.

Finally, Tucson is hurt by the Arizona mentality that if a good-ole-boy (or girl) born here didn't come up with it, the idea stinks. I've lived in several American cities and I've never seen one that had a less welcoming attitude toward "outsiders." (Unless they bring millions of dollars of cash with them, of course, e.g. private prison developers.) How many decades does a person have to live here before they are no longer an immigrant? It's certainly shockingly different from my former home of Pittsburgh where any outsider was always seen as better/smarter/faster than any native. That city has an unwarranted inferiority complex that is exactly the opposite of Tucson.

[tijlover]

Originally Posted by kirk99

@tijlover, if you ever build a mid-rise at 22nd street across Reid Park, my guess here is that the neighborhood around that area will welcome you with open arms right at THIS moment. Reid Park is very nice but the area across 22nd st. isn't . In fact, most of 22nd st, is nowhere impressive aesthetically.

I've been eyeballing areas of Tucson where I plan to retire next year, and I was blown away with Reid Park, and, ideally, I would love to be walking distance to that older park, looking upon it as Tucson's Central Park, like in NYC.

I was rather surprised that there weren't any mid-rise, or even high rise, developments bordering that park, like in other cities with such a jewel of a city park.

And then I got to wondering if the Nimby's in that area want to keep that area low density, keep it all to themselves, and have consistently argued/fought over developments in that area.

I drove around the Sam Hughes historic district, and I'm wondering if, perhaps, they were the culprits, if there were any. Too many transplants from Nimby-ridden California?

[kirk99]

Originally Posted by tijlover

I've been eyeballing areas of Tucson where I plan to retire next year, and I was blown away with Reid Park, and, ideally, I would love to be walking distance to that older park, looking upon it as Tucson's Central Park, like in NYC.

I was rather surprised that there weren't any mid-rise, or even high rise, developments bordering that park, like in other cities with such a jewel of a city park.

And then I got to wondering if the Nimby's in that area want to keep that area low density, keep it all to themselves, and have consistently argued/fought over developments in that area.

I drove around the Sam Hughes historic district, and I'm wondering if, perhaps, they were the culprits, if there were any. Too many transplants from Nimby-ridden California?

I don't know if the culprits are from Sam Hughes neighborhood or transplants from Cali. I don't have any data to back it up, although I won't be surprised if they're from Cali or from the Sam Hughes area. I knew a few folks from Cali that are resistant to turning Tucson into a crowded California. They move down here after checking Tucson only for a few hours and asked themselves 'Oh, what a cute little town' and thereafter, only to realized it's getting 'California crowded'.

The Tucson gov't is more pro-business these days. And lately, there's been a lot of 'fast track' approvals of building permits. I'd say if you or anyone you know wants to build a mid-rise complex at 22nd in front of Reid Park, I think you'd get your permit. There's a large student housing complex being built not far from Reid Park (22nd st/ Park ave, 1-2 miles away), the neighborhood was largely acceptable and happy with this development. There's in fact, some development happening at the corner of 22nd/I-10 and 22nd/Country Club(?, in front of Reid Park).

[Bummer]

No way would I ever qualify as a NIMBY, Tijlover . . .

However, Thank Goodness they exist here in Tucson . . . otherwise we would have a Hodge-Podge of EYESORES created by greed driven outsiders and/or nutcases solely interested in a fast buck.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by Bummer

No way would I ever qualify as a NIMBY, Tijlover . . .

However, Thank Goodness they exist here in Tucson . . . otherwise we would have a Hodge-Podge of EYESORES created by greed driven outsiders and/or nutcases solely interested in a fast buck.

Bummer, where were they for the current street car project if they didn't want urban in Tucson?

[Rogarven]

How about an East -West Freeway? Isn't that a super NIMBY?