Something I heard about Tucson's entrenched leadership (growth related) (Phoenix: to live in, professionals)

[Kabluey]

Originally Posted by ZonyPony

Never EVER heard of such a thing. TOTAL storybook, fairytale myth. The "native" you spoke to obviously got his/her MISinformation from a grapevine with root rot.

Phoenix has its own way of doing things and so does Tucson. Two totally different entities. Two totally different animals growing separately and apart from each other in too many different ways. One group of people cannot control things that way. Too simplistic. Way too many variables.

I may have oversimplified what was said to me. My understanding is Tucson has an older history than Phoenix, and that much of Phoenix's development was fueled by Tucsonans? Wrong? Right? It's not as much being puppeteers, but discouraging growth in Tucson and steering them to Phoenix? It may still be wrong...

That said, something must be done to unite the young professionals around town, so it at least appears welcoming and dynamic to retain grads from the U of A and attract the best and brightest minds here from around the world.

[Kabluey]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

My personal favorite is a woman who went to some anti-growth meeting 6 (six!) days after moving here! Same with immigration - once I'm here, immigration should stop. We humans are such amazing disgusting selfish critters!

There are several types of immigration, let's not blur them under the same umbrella. Not to digress, just since you brought it up.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by Kabluey

I may have oversimplified what was said to me. My understanding is Tucson has an older history than Phoenix, and that much of Phoenix's development was fueled by Tucsonans? Wrong? Right? It's not as much being puppeteers, but discouraging growth in Tucson and steering them to Phoenix? It may still be wrong...

That said, something must be done to unite the young professionals around town, so it at least appears welcoming and dynamic to retain grads from the U of A and attract the best and brightest minds here from around the world.

Young professionals around town? What are you talking about? Tucson has almost no young professionals. Anyone with an opportunity and an education gets out of Tucson immediately after graduating. Nobody chooses to stay in this town unless they have no choice, no self-confidence, or no ambition. The few people I know who "embrace" this town are basically Hippie wanna-bees that think it's "cool" to live in a town where there is more garbage in the streets and abject poverty than many places in Mexico.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by Spot

Young professionals around town? What are you talking about? Tucson has almost no young professionals. Anyone with an opportunity and an education gets out of Tucson immediately after graduating. Nobody chooses to stay in this town unless they have no choice, no self-confidence, or no ambition. The few people I know who "embrace" this town are basically Hippie wanna-bees that think it's "cool" to live in a town where there is more garbage in the streets and abject poverty than many places in Mexico.

Not that I'm in love with Tucson, but I happen to be an objective person and half of your statements all over the forum today are ridiculous.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

Not that I'm in love with Tucson, but I happen to be an objective person and half of your statements all over the forum today are ridiculous.

They are also true. It's funny to me how the people in Tucson deny reality and claim that Tucson is such a great place to live. As if the only consideration in evaluating ones quality of life is whether or not it's sunny outside. I read yesterday that RIO Nuevo is likely losing it's funding due to poor management by the city. And the list goes on...

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by Spot

They are also true. It's funny to me how the people in Tucson deny reality and claim that Tucson is such a great place to live. As if the only consideration in evaluating ones quality of life is whether or not it's sunny outside. I read yesterday that RIO Nuevo is likely losing it's funding due to poor management by the city. And the list goes on...

I've never said it was great! What I'm saying is talking as if crime is like in Flint, MI, or that the whole city looks like a poor area in Mexico has nothing to do with the reality and I don't advocate misleading people who've never visited. It might not be my cup of tea, but it could be theirs.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

I've never said it was great! What I'm saying is talking as if crime is like in Flint, MI, or that the whole city looks like a poor area in Mexico has nothing to do with the reality and I don't advocate misleading people who've never visited. It might not be my cup of tea, but it could be theirs.

I agree with you that the crime is probably worse in Flint MI. But the crime here is pretty bad also. And statistically, Tucson ranks near the top of the list for property crime per-capita. And it's steadily getting worse because the economic conditions in Tucson are deteriorating.

As for the appearance of the city, most people I know think that Tucson isn't taking care of its infrastructure very well. There are whole sections of town that are run down, dirty and very poorly maintained. I know this is largely a function of not having adequate resources to fix the roads, put in sidewalks, etc..., but that simply doesn't change the fact that it looks terrible.

That being said, the Sonoran Desert around Tucson is absolutely beautiful and the weather here in the winter is fabulous. It's actually a real shame that the leadership in Tucson didn't have more vision 30 years ago when the growth really took off. This town could have been AZ's answer to Santa Fe.

[ZonyPony]

"...see spot run...!"

[actinic]

Originally Posted by Spot

It's actually a real shame that the leadership in Tucson didn't have more vision 30 years ago when the growth really took off. This town could have been AZ's answer to Santa Fe.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by Kabluey

I moved here in 2002. This month I heard from a native that Tucson's entrenched leadership (political and business) has long sought to put a ceiling on growth here, to keep it and its aspirations small, and direct the growth to Phoenix. I guess the story goes that a generation ago, Tucson's leaders started to fuel Phoenix's growth, and that that's a big reason why many of the legislative leaders have been Tucsonans (a testament to their power and control over things happening in Arizona). Now, their hopes have crashed against the realization that, despite their efforts, Tucson has still grown beyond their hopes (although perhaps not as much as others would like), and in ways they were unprepared for (families and young professionals). That's the story, at least.

I wonder 1) is this a myth? If not, then 2) will there be an end to this attitude, in a way that will make Tucson competitive for drawing young professionals to town, to fuel a vibrant, cosmopolitan atmosphere here?

Historically, political and business entities have both encourage unlimited growth in both Tucson and Phoenix. Back in the 1960s one of the mayors Tucson actually wanted the city to cover the entire Tucson Valley through extensive annexation. That obviously didn't happen. Before about 1970, a strong contingent of anti-growth/anti-development gained power. Since then, that group has found ways to significantly stunt Tucson's growth. The lack of diversified job growth in Tucson compared to Phoenix is what has really prohibited Tucson from growing to a city of 1 million. Tucson is showing no signs of attempting to diversify its economy, so even after the economy eventually recovers, Tucson will continue growing at a snails pace.