Tulsa, OKC, or Fayetteville Metro (Norman, Broken Arrow: sales, real estate, insurance)

[sunnyspring]

Hi All, I posted some questions a while back about COL, weather, and schools in the OKC metro and have done my research in these departments thanks to your posts. I since opened up my possible new location to the Fayetteville or Tulsa metros and would really like to narrow my search down to one place (if possible) before I take a trip out there so I can spend what little-available time I will have looking at houses instead of sightseeing. Since my toddler twins will be in tow I'm hoping to take care of business and sight-see after the move.

These are the specific cities/towns I'm looking at: Edmond, Norman, Jenks, Broken Arrow, or somewhere around Fayetteville.

I would love to hear your opinions on the pros and cons of these places with respect to raising kids and if you grew up in any one of these places, what you loved/hated about it. I selected places with good schools and where I can afford to buy a reasonable house for @ $150k.

Thank you for your thoughts/comments.

BTW I also posted this in the OKC and Fayetteville forums.

[flyingcat2k]

Originally Posted by sunnyspring

Hi All, I posted some questions a while back about COL, weather, and schools in the OKC metro and have done my research in these departments thanks to your posts. I since opened up my possible new location to the Fayetteville or Tulsa metros and would really like to narrow my search down to one place (if possible) before I take a trip out there so I can spend what little-available time I will have looking at houses instead of sightseeing. Since my toddler twins will be in tow I'm hoping to take care of business and sight-see after the move.

These are the specific cities/towns I'm looking at: Edmond, Norman, Jenks, Broken Arrow, or somewhere around Fayetteville.

I would love to hear your opinions on the pros and cons of these places with respect to raising kids and if you grew up in any one of these places, what you loved/hated about it. I selected places with good schools and where I can afford to buy a reasonable house for @ $150k.

Thank you for your thoughts/comments.

BTW I also posted this in the OKC and Fayetteville forums.

My DW and I lived in Tulsa for 5 years and looked at moving to both cities. For a 150k home in the Tulsa area, you'll need to look in older areas of Broken Arrow and Glenpool. I think 150k is a bit too low for Owasso now. For Jenks and Jenks School District (which covers a large swath of the City of Tulsa), you are priced out. If you can come up to 175k, you can find something in those districts.

One of the reasons we chose to leave Tulsa was the lack of support for public schools. The other was the oil crash and what will happen to real estate prices later this year.

IMHO, you are choosing a difficult time for me to recommend moving to Oklahoma at all. The Oklahoma legislature shows absolutely no interest in funding public education. That's not due to the Tulsa delegation trying or bringing bills forward. The Western Oklahoma and Salisaw legislators refuse to believe that teachers are professional people. Bills have been proposed to not require teachers to have teaching certifications. While this could expand the pool of teachers (professionals with collegiate science degrees could probably teach HS science courses), it will cause most or all school districts to lose interstate accreditation. Thus, a Oklahoma HS degree will become worthless outside the state. Western Oklahoma legislators in small towns don't seem to care but it is a major issue. To me, OKC is part of the problem and OKCPS is getting as bad as Chicago PS. Even Edmund is having issues now with their schools albiet due to big layoffs from energy firms, not necessarily the school board.

There are pluses and minuses with Fayetteville. You'll need to be in the 175-200k area for a reasonable house in a SAFE area for NW Arkansas and at that price range, you'll be in a smaller town outside of Fayetteville. I wouldn't recommend Springdale since it was pretty run down there. Siloam Springs would be ok at the 150k range. Teachers make a lot more in Arkansas and have the funding to maintain quality education. PM me if you have specific areas in NWA that you are looking at.

[StillwaterTownie]

In November, Oklahoma may vote to raise the state sales by 1 cent to better fund education. Taxes are a bit higher in Arkansas, so that is how education is better supported in that state. However, taking the load off a bit is, unlike in Oklahoma, sales taxes on groceries are much lower.

[okie1962]

I know two families who have transferred out of Oklahoma because of the mess our public education is in. A lot of schools in Oklahoma are out of money, the only way to make ends meet, is to switch to a 4 day school week.

[sunnyspring]

Thank you Stillwater, flyingcat, and okie. I think I was just convinced by the realtor I spoke with in Bentonville to go to NWA. I really liked the look of Edmond from google walking and the idea of being close to a major city without being in it. I liked that the houses looked very well built and that on my budget I could afford to have choices there that I cannot have here in OR. Thing is, the cost of homeowner's insurance and property taxes is that much lower in AR that I can have even more choices and still be in a nice community of ample size with good schools. I hope OK finds the money it needs for its schools so they don't end up as poor of quality as ours are in OR. Our student:teacher ratio is 23+:teacher all over the map and no way did I want my kids disappearing in a classroom of that size. OK still looked so much better at @17:teacher. Thank you all again and I will chime in once I'm moved.

[grampaTom]

I have lived in NE Oklahoma and Fayetteville. I have 2 sons and 2 sisters in Tulsa now. You can probably get more home for your money in Oklahoma and especially in the OKC area based on what I see on Realtor.com. All 3 places are very different in their 'feel' and in their geography. If you really cannot spent a few days in each one I doubt you can make a good decision based on internet replies.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by okie1962

I know two families who have transferred out of Oklahoma because of the mess our public education is in. A lot of schools in Oklahoma are out of money, the only way to make ends meet, is to switch to a 4 day school week.

Surely, more people will move out of Oklahoma, if the citizens lack the will to get rid of many of the incumbent Republican legislators at the polls in Nov. For instance, the ones who supported the bill to divert public money to private schools. That idea was the height of ridiculousness. Fortunately, there were enough legislators to step in and stopped it. Oklahoma really is a poorly run state. It has yet to learn how to manage a budget subject to the ups and downs of the oil industry. Cutting taxes is not how you do it. Not cutting taxes and creating a much bigger rainy day fund of $2 or 3 billion would have helped considerably, like not having to vote on a question in Nov. to raise your state sales tax by a penny for education.

[sunnyspring]

grandpaTom, People relocate all the time for work and buy houses sight unseen in places they've never visited. In my case I'll be taking my job with me and relocating for affordability and a better quality of life. I've done enough traveling to know you mostly won't know if you'll like a place enough to stay forever by visiting it for a few days. When I woke up in Aleppo, Syria in the mid-90's and looked out the window of my filthy hotel room I knew I didn't want to stay there. Equally when I passed through El Paso, TX on Amtrak in the mid-80's I knew I didn't want to live there either. (Sorry El Paso!) But, when I drove across country and stopped in Clinton, OK I thought it seemed like a nice place, and when I stopped at the cleanest rest stop I've ever seen in my life upon entering AR I was dually impressed. Maybe it's just the little things.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by sunnyspring

grandpaTom, People relocate all the time for work and buy houses sight unseen in places they've never visited. In my case I'll be taking my job with me and relocating for affordability and a better quality of life. I've done enough traveling to know you mostly won't know if you'll like a place enough to stay forever by visiting it for a few days. When I woke up in Aleppo, Syria in the mid-90's and looked out the window of my filthy hotel room I knew I didn't want to stay there. Equally when I passed through El Paso, TX on Amtrak in the mid-80's I knew I didn't want to live there either. (Sorry El Paso!) But, when I drove across country and stopped in Clinton, OK I thought it seemed like a nice place, and when I stopped at the cleanest rest stop I've ever seen in my life upon entering AR I was dually impressed. Maybe it's just the little things.

There's a lot of good things and some bad things with both places. Culturally, I think you'll find the people are pretty welcoming/hospitable in Oklahoma and Arkansas. I live in central Oklahoma and have property in eastern Oklahoma (and travel to NWA regularly). I'm in both places often and I find that the people in both areas are really quite pleasant. That's a plus. Both states are fairly similar when it comes to culture.

As for the education situation, it's no secret that it is a mess here in Oklahoma right now. With more budget cuts it doesn't look like our educational system will be improving any time soon.

However, you did mention Edmond and that is an excellent area with fine schools. Lots of folks moving in there from all over and it is definitely one of the prettier towns in central Oklahoma.

I think that NWA is very scenically beautiful just as some parts of Green Country over there around Tulsa. Both NE Oklahoma and NWA have some of the prettiest lakes in the South-Central.

Good luck with your decision.

[sunnyspring]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

However, you did mention Edmond and that is an excellent area with fine schools. Lots of folks moving in there from all over and it is definitely one of the prettier towns in central Oklahoma.

Thank you Bass. This is a difficult decision with pros/cons to both places. For some reason I feel drawn to Edmond and without having visited it looks like a very nice city from google walking. The houses are nicer in Edmond for the same money as they are in NWA, but real estate taxes and insurance are less expensive in NWA, which means I could spend more on a house in NWA. If we knew all the answers clairvoyants wouldn't have a job right? I'll chime in once bigger decisions have been made.