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"He took the identity of his brother and became a priest after a drug smuggle that went wrong, in which his brother was killed. Eko killed two guerrillas in defense, was ostracized and left Nigeria to become a priest in Australia. After investigating the "fake miracle" of a girl who came back to life after drowning in Australia in 2004, Eko boarded Oceanic Airlines Flight 815. This plane crashed and left Eko, along with a few other survivors, on a deserted island. On Eko's 72nd day on the island, he sees his brother and chases him until he is confronted and killed by the smoke monster."
I don't know if we can draw up strict Christian guidelines when trying to figure out this show or these two major characters. this is a show that has made a lot of references to Greek and Egyptian mythology, Egyptian and (apparently) Mayan history, some Buddhism, etc. sure we have a character named Christian Shepherd, but I think it would be a bit too simplistic for them to wrap it up w/ a "it was a direct allegory to Christianity". IMO, there is something more going on here than a Christ vs. Anti-Christ, or even Jacob vs. Esau
I don't know what the "plot" is, just threw that out because some always say GOD and it occured to me that maybe it was Christ and the Anti-Christ. I don't think "deep" about this show, just read what the "deep thinkers" on here type. Like I said, just a thought.
I think there will be some religious parallels but not necessarily Christianity. Most religions have a person or entity that they label as evil and one that is labeled as good. There is a lot of religious symbolism but I don't think we're talking about the story of Jacob and Esau. The name Jacob is a classic one. It's been around forever and is still a popular name. Same with Ricardo or Richard. I think it's more likely that the writers wanted names that still are relevant to name characters that we've established are "old". Same goes for Claire naming her son Aaron. It would throw off the balance if she named him D'wayne or P-diddy.
God does not take lives? I'm thinking of the pillars of salt and the flood.
First let me say that I am not a religious scholar or a churchgoer. I was raised in a very religious household (2xs to church on Sunday and once on Wednesday), educated in Catholic school and married to an ex-Mormon (who's family is still very active). So...with that background, here we go...
Some religions think that everyone has a path and that even though you think you're doing what you want, you're really not because your life has already been planned out. I've always sort of seen my life as one with "potential" and not "destiny" and if I make the wrong choice and don't correct it, I can become a big loser like many who have come before me. I don't think people are born with a path of "crackhead" written into their DNA. I'm a big believer in free will. That's where I think Jacob's discussion with Richard was significant...he talked about him not wanting to involve himself in the choices that those on the island make. He wanted them to figure things out for themselves...otherwise, it's all for nothing. It's also why, IMHO, so many names have been scratched out and in Jacob and the MIB's discussion of why yet another boat was coming to the island, Jacob responded with "it only ends once...everything else is progress."
That's the crux of religion and an often misunderstood part by those who don't believe in God. People ask..."if there IS a God, then why does God let a 3-year old drown" or "why do some people who do terrible things allowed to live to the age of 95?" In terms of the island, we've met many characters who were killed who were innocent and nice and some who have survived who have done some terrible things. I think Richard's story was significant because he had a choice to go with the MIB and it was a tempting one. In the end, he chose to go with Jacob and Jacob basically gave him "eternal life" but couldn't give him his wife back. I am not sure how old the MIB is...I suspect he's been on the island longer than Jacob. I think Jacob was brought to the island by another "Jacob" and also made the right choice which made him the "protector".
Eko escaped from his country by impersonating a priest. Since he never actually confessed what he did and went through the process of becoming a genuine priest, I just wouldn't think he could be called a real priest even though he came to think of himself as an actual priest.
I do find the "we are already together" comment a little strange. Let's assume that Richard has never been able to communicate with Isabella in the centuries he's been on the island...until Hurley. "We're already together" says to me that Richard is also living in some sort of alternate timeline as well.
I didn’t take the comment to be pointing to an alternate timeline. Richard has long outlived his natural life span due to the influence of Jacob. Absent something similar happening to her, the likelihood of Isabella being out there in the world in an alternate timeline seems highly doubtful. I took it as possible confirmation of what Richard told Jack and company around the campfire; they’re all dead. Now, I’m not a fan of this idea by a long shot. However, there are clues that have been thrown our way throughout the show via the Egyptian connection.
To start, there was the clock in the Swan station. When Locke and Desmond didn’t push the button and let the countdown continue, the numbers eventually disappeared and were replaced by hieroglyphs. The symbols shown have been translated to mean “underworld”. The same symbols appear on the boarding pass for Ajira Airways, which of course is how our characters returned to the Island. Then there is the wall carving in the chamber under the Temple where Ben was “judged”. Clearly depicted is the Egyptian god, Anubis, kneeling in front of the Smoke Monster. In Egyptian mythology early on, Anubis was the god of the dead. That role was later taken on by Osiris, and Anubis became the monitor at the Scales of Truth, ensuring that the dead were judged fairly. One of the symbols often used to denote Anubis was a black and white ox hide, splattered with blood. And where have we seen heavy use of the black and white motif?
Then we have the statue of Taweret. Taweret is known as a goddess of fertility and seen as a protector of pregnant women. But Taweret’s consort is Apep, an ancient spirit that represented evil and chaos. He was constantly fighting against the order of things, and sometimes even won, but his victories usually didn’t last long. Apep was most often depicted as a serpent, and was said to live in eternal darkness. Now our friend the Smokester, when in his non human form, looks a bit serpentine doesn’t he? And again, when not in “human” form, does he not live underground, in darkness? Also, Apep was greatly feared by the Egyptians, and priests even wrote a guide on how to fight him. One of the chapters of the guide is titled “Taking A Knife To Smite Apep”. Now remind me…what was the weapon given to Sayid by Dogen to be used to kill “Locke?”
Taweret has also been linked with the god Sobek, who originally was also associated with fertility. Later on though, Sobek became known as the “repairer of evil”, restoring the damage done to the dead that occurred when they died. He was also said to call on the various gods needed to protect people so that things would follow their proper path without him actively moving them in that direction himself. Is that you Jacob?
Let me just repeat that I don’t particularly like the idea that this is what the Island really is all about. If anything, I’m more inclined to believe that the story of Jacob and Esau and the various gods from Egyptian mythology, were used as the basis for development of the characters of Jacob and MIB. If it turns out that the writers/producers are actually being literal and this is what the thrust of the show has been all along, I will be more than a little PO’d to find out I’ve waited all this time just to be handed that as the explanation.
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Originally Posted by the3Ds
So...a few BIG things still left unanswered. What's the difference between a candidate and someone like Richard, Ilana and Doggin? How did Jacob know that a kid would make a good candidate since they don't come to the island until they're adults? Were Ilana and Doggin the same as Richard...brought to the island with others who were killed then those 3 were found by Jacob and recruited to help him?
The difference is that a Candidate has been specifically chosen as a possible replacement for Jacob should MIB finally figure out a way to kill him. Ilana’s role is to serve as a bodyguard for the Candidates. Dogen was placed at the Temple to protect it from the MIB. Richard has served as Jacob’s proxy or go between to deliver instructions to the Candidates, Temple protector, and whoever was leading the Hostiles/Others. There have probably not always been bodyguards for the Candidates. This is likely a new development based on the fact that Jacob had stated there were only six Candidates left, which I interpreted as meaning, once they were gone, there would be no more.
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Originally Posted by the3Ds
Perhaps I'm not remembering correctly, but weren't there white rocks on the dial in the lighthouse? Similar to what Jacob gave to Richard to pass on to the MIB? Some sort of indicator that they have chosen the right path? If they weren't on the dial, where were they? I remember something with white rocks laying on top.
No, there were no white rocks on the wheel in the Lighthouse. Where you saw the white rock was sitting on a scale in the cave, balanced against a black rock. When “Locke” took Sawyer to the cave, he removed the white rock and threw it out into the ocean, and the scale tipped in favor of the black rock. I took this to symbolize the idea of opposing forces, or more specifically, Jacob and MIB, one no stronger than the other, thus the situation on the Island was in perpetual stalemate. With Jacob’s death, the stalemate was broken, and MIB’s power was no longer in check. I suspect the white rock that Jacob had Richard give to MIB was meant to show not that Richard had chosen the right path, but rather that Richard had been claimed by Jacob so MIB could not do the same.
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Originally Posted by Fishy
What was special about ben? he wasnt brought there by jacob originally, and he wasnt a candidate. what was special about the circumstances that lead jacob, whos basically immortal, be killed by regular ben? Remember the kid telling flocke he couldnt kill sawyer. i dont think thats exclusive to just the candidates, but to all that jacob brought to the island for a purpose.
Actually, the name “Linus” appears both in the cave as well as on the wheel at the Lighthouse, so that would indicate that Ben was in fact a Candidate. MIB chose Ben for the task because he knew Ben was the most disillusioned of Jacob’s followers and the one most likely to do what he was forbidden to do himself; kill Jacob. After Ben watched his “daughter” Alex die, all for the sake of the Island, and it appeared to serve no purpose, Ben was obviously vulnerable to being influenced. When Ben returned to the Island to be judged under the Temple the MIB masqueraded as Alex and told Ben to do exactly what Locke told him to do. So when “Locke” told him to kill Jacob, Ben did it without question. Jacob didn’t help matters either when he basically made Ben feel like a nothing in his eyes. I also don’t believe that MIB is barred from killing the Candidates or anyone else that has come to the Island. MIB has killed other Candidates before, such as Montand, who came to the Island with Danielle Rousseau. If it was not possible for him to do so, Jacob would not have needed to enlist Ilana and her group to protect the remaining Candidates from MIB.
Did anyone else catch that when Richard was give to the capt. of the Black Rock the capt. called him Mr. Windmore (or very close to that name). Than he said to Richard you are now the property of Magnus Hanso.
The captain of the Black Rock was Magnus Hanso. The man who purchased Richard for Captain Hanso was referred to as “Mr. Whitfield”. This whole episode actually opened up major inconsistencies in the storyline of the show.
To start, in the episode “The Constant” where we see Charles Widmore bidding on the journal that belonged to the first mate on the Black Rock, the history of the ship is given as this: “The Black Rock set sail from Portsmouth, England on March 22, 1845 on a trading mission to the Kingdom of Siam, when she was tragically lost at sea. The only known artifact of this journey is the journal of the ship’s first mate, which was discovered among the artifacts of pirates on the Ile Sante Marie off the coast of Madagascar seven years later. The contents of this journal have never been made public, or known to anyone outside the family of the seller, Tovard Hanso”.
However, in the latest episode dealing with Richard and his coming to be on the Black Rock, the events are shown to begin on the Canary Islands in the year 1867. Mr. Whitfield remarks to Richard about Richard being interested in going to the New World. When Richard responds in the affirmative, Whitfield states: “Well then, this is your lucky day”. Now, Whitfield could have been lying, but if the Black Rock was really intended to sail to the New World (North or South America), you need only sail across the Atlantic from the Canary Islands to reach either of those point. Instead, the Black Rock ends up on the Island in the Pacific, which would have entailed sailing all the way around Africa through the Indian Ocean to get there. That’s an awfully indirect route to the New World.
Jacob said he was responsible for the Black Rock coming to the Island. But why did he do it? By the interaction between Richard and Jacob at the beginning, Jacob had no idea who Richard was. This would seem to indicate that Richard was not the person Jacob wished to come to the Island. So then who was? Was there a Candidate on board the Black Rock? If so, then that person was killed either when the Black Rock came to rest on the Island or by the Smoke.
Now there is the journal. Setting aside the serious difference in the years, how did the journal get off of the Black Rock and into the hands of pirates? If everyone but Richard died, who was left to leave the Island with the journal? If the journal ended up back in the hands of the Hanso family, of what value would it be to anyone anyway? The amount of time the crew of the Black Rock survived seems to have been very short, so no great detail of a magical Island where amazing things happen would likely be contained inside. We know the Island moves, so any co-ordinates in the journal wouldn’t necessarily get you where you wanted to go in the first place either. More to the point, when Mrs. Hawking had everyone gathered inside the old DHARMA “Lighthouse” station, she indicated this was how DHARMA found the Island, because it enabled them to pinpoint “where” the Island would be at certain points in time. So what then, the journal made mention of an Island somewhere and Alvar Hanso funded DHARMA to go and find it? That doesn’t make much sense. Or did Hanso or someone associated with him discover the existence of the Island through the top secret U.S. military documents that dealt with the “Jughead” bomb test?
I don’t know what to make of all of this other than to suspect that the writers/producers are in such a hurry to wrap up the show that they have forgotten the details of what they did up to this point. That, or they don’t care and are hoping that viewers have forgotten or won’t care either.
I used to totally be engrossed with the science and physics of this show. Now that they are wrapping up....it is more about the characters. I'm in it for a great ride until it is over. I think it will remain my favorite show for many years to come. It would be hard to begin to replace it.
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