Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Idk. I think he is out to prove that there are miracles in jarden. The grandson seemed like he knew what to do. I think somebody is getting buried in the woods for three days....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookside
I had a different take on the Evie mystery. There was no explaining her shift from smart, happy, well-loved wild child to the angry, bitter, determined member of the Guilty Remnant. What propelled her?
For the entire season, I thought that Virgil was John's father and that he sexually abused John. Notice how he was always just called "your grandfather" or "Virgil" or "that man," etc.? (I think this was intentionally clouded by the show runners).
Then, in the finale, Michael clearly refers to him as "your dad" to Erika. We know Virgil was a rapist, but his victim was Erika. It would make sense - Erika has always struck me as a character with an over-abundance of steely resolve - she has overcome way more than just hearing loss and her husband's imprisonment.
And it would explain her frustration over John's inability to "just let it go." She has gotten over it, but her husband's continual anger about it will not let her move forward, ever.
Fast forward to Evie at the bridge: "You understand." And the wash of horrible realization that spread over Erika's face. Evie was molested/raped, and Erika had no idea. As she told Nora in episode 6 -- she thought Evie was undamaged and would be OK if she left John.
Who was the perpetrator? We could make the argument that it was Virgil -- since he is a known offender -- and that this is why John shot him (all the while keeping this knowledge away from Erika, letting her believe that his murderous anger was due to what happened to her, and also making Evie promise not to tell her about any of it).
But I think there is also a compelling case that it was John who raped/molested Evie. And then shot Virgil in an attempt to deflect suspicion from himself. (And also maybe because Virgil found out about it?)
Now -- let's circle back to episode Episode 8, where Patti told Kevin that "John Wilkes Booth didn't assassinate Lincoln because he opposed his ideology, but because he shared it."
You can say that this is also why John tried to assassinate Virgil. They are/were two of a kind.
John pulled the trigger on Kevin not because he thought Kevin had anything to do with Evie's disappearance, but because Kevin hinted that she didn't love him (and sort of implied that she might have a good reason not to).
I would suggest that you watch the ginsl. 3 episodes if S1 before S2
Definitely more action and yet not too much plot nuance so you are lost
But agree
I started S1 three times
There are some aspects of S1 that are comprable w/S2 once you have seen all episodes and make a more dense/layered characterization of characters so going through all episodes might be worth it later...
Thank you for saying "purgatory." I think Kevin referred to it as heaven.
That's actually a lot like i think purgatory would look like- twighlight all the time, a hotel (i.e., transient place) and people doing good or bad things that they think will lead to somewhere else. Bad fluorescent lights like old-school hospital lighting. And needing to "choose who you are." (i was trying to see what the other outfits were. Was that a purple alter-boy costume? It had greek letters, he does not seem like a "frat boy type!)
It just now occurred to me that Kevin sent Patty to Hell. (Wow i'm slow!)
OK, so that NOW makes sense to me why he said "you pushed a little girl down a well and you don't want to sing?"
And because purgatory is only transient, it honestly never even occurred to me as weird or a "miracle" that Kevin came back. Twice!
It also makes sense to me that "Mary Jamerson" would be there or assumed to be and have people "looking for her" when she is not awake. She doesn't even seem to be "locked in" because even though she follows with her eyes, she needs to be updated on what happened when she was "out."
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read
Yes--that interp holds up since there is still lot of backstory for John's family that is obscured
I know Evie was molested--too much anger, passive/aggressive behavior not to have been
But the molester is unclear
I don't think it is clear who molested who and when. I noticed in the second to last episode, Kevin said something to the gramps about him molesting little kids (boys?) And i was like "Whuuuuut??!? Where did that come from??!" Was it supposed to have been implied that Michael was zipping his pants when Kevin came in his house??
I don't think we will ever know that about Evie but it fits her character. Meg too. And certainly some sort of extreme childhood abuse happened top Patty they way child Patty was talking about herself and how she got into an abusive relationship.
I think John's attempted murder on Virgil was not about John's kids. And IDK if Erica would be so nonchalant about saying to her son, "i don't want you going over there anymore," if there was a question or especially a confirmation of him being a peodophile. IDK how she would stop him, but i feel strongly that she would.
I had a different take on the Evie mystery. There was no explaining her shift from smart, happy, well-loved wild child to the angry, bitter, determined member of the Guilty Remnant. What propelled her?
For the entire season, I thought that Virgil was John's father and that he sexually abused John. Notice how he was always just called "your grandfather" or "Virgil" or "that man," etc.? (I think this was intentionally clouded by the show runners).
Then, in the finale, Michael clearly refers to him as "your dad" to Erika. We know Virgil was a rapist, but his victim was Erika. It would make sense - Erika has always struck me as a character with an over-abundance of steely resolve - she has overcome way more than just hearing loss and her husband's imprisonment.
And it would explain her frustration over John's inability to "just let it go." She has gotten over it, but her husband's continual anger about it will not let her move forward, ever.
Fast forward to Evie at the bridge: "You understand." And the wash of horrible realization that spread over Erika's face. Evie was molested/raped, and Erika had no idea. As she told Nora in episode 6 -- she thought Evie was undamaged and would be OK if she left John.
Who was the perpetrator? We could make the argument that it was Virgil -- since he is a known offender -- and that this is why John shot him (all the while keeping this knowledge away from Erika, letting her believe that his murderous anger was due to what happened to her, and also making Evie promise not to tell her about any of it).
But I think there is also a compelling case that it was John who raped/molested Evie. And then shot Virgil in an attempt to deflect suspicion from himself. (And also maybe because Virgil found out about it?)
Now -- let's circle back to episode Episode 8, where Patti told Kevin that "John Wilkes Booth didn't assassinate Lincoln because he opposed his ideology, but because he shared it."
You can say that this is also why John tried to assassinate Virgil. They are/were two of a kind.
John pulled the trigger on Kevin not because he thought Kevin had anything to do with Evie's disappearance, but because Kevin hinted that she didn't love him (and sort of implied that she might have a good reason not to).
Regardless, this leaves us with rich material for Season 3. I hope there is one. IMO - The Leftovers is the best show on TV.
I think that was intentional too. But even so, i have often referred to family i don't like and/or speak to anymore as "that woman" or their first names to give myself emotional distance.
Erica said that Evie would NOT be ok but that Michael would. She implied that Evie was sensitive and emotional. Makes sense that such a character would join a cult and try to be steely. Meg was sort of the same in season 1 before the GR.
IDK what the whole "you understand" was. I don't think a series of being molested necessarily leads you to join a cult and threaten people's lives because i doubt ALL the people in the GR have been abused.
I'm into graphology and would kinda like to see the character's actually handwriting on those notes. I know they all look the same for the benefit of the audience and clarity, it is just a minor gripe i have.
John also seems like a character who was molested and has a big chip on his shoulder. It's not uncommon for males who have been sexually abused to act out in that way. (I actually know someone in prison for killing his molester.)
We thought that was just so funny, so absurd--that Kevin found himself back at the hotel with that same manic music...
but note some differences---
this time he chose his original clothing--the police chief outfit--and there was no concierge to give him guidance--just the guy with Australian accent who was in the previous episode--wonder where he came from...
apparently when Erika's father killed himself it was one-way ticket to wherever he was going...
Also no one trying to assassinate Kevin this time which likely means that Patty is gone (too bad IMO)...
Re the silent car ride--getting into the GR mindset...
did anyone else note how Evie was sitting in the back seat--a la Meg when she is driven around--
that she was the one giving the direction and with a very fierce aura of purpose and strength--
those girls were afraid to cross Evie which is how I am sure many people in Meg's cult feel...
We still don't know what John walked into when he went home.
I think it's John's father, but regardless Virgil is gone for good imo because he drank the water.
Now he's stuck and doesn't remember anything - he thinks he is a Concierge.
Kevin got instruction in the sense that the Police uniform had his city on it and his real name on it.
The Australian guy obviously didn't drink the water and is some sort of spirit guide.
Oh, and John did kill Kevin because he thought he killed Evie. That wasn't spontaneous. Why do you think he had him in the dog kennel to begin with? And the police let him be alone with him?
Wow, what a finale.
Fingers crossed that it's renewed but if not that last scene with Kevin reunited with all his loved ones was powerful and satisfying.
Meg's spell over Tom has broken, praise be.
I was riveted by the Nora/Lily story: 1) Nora being understandably frustrated by trying to care for both Mary and Lily, with a callback to the first scene in the series where the baby is crying and the mother loses patience, then the baby departs. But Nora never loses patience. This one scene brought home how much Nora has grown since the departure. 2) Nora hearing the radio voice talking about how a new baby can't replace the departed one, and she looks at Lily and briefly waivers (Carrie Coon was brilliant in that moment). 3) Nora losing then getting Lily back, and any doubt she had about Lily "not being [her] baby" evaporates. The young woman who repeatedly called out to her was just echoing what had been going on in Nora's mind, probably even before the adoption. Tonight Nora found peace.
Theroux has been solid all the way through both seasons but tonight he soared, broke my heart while singing. He does anguished bewilderment like no other actor I can recall. Your heart just aches for him as he tries to understand what is happening.
Trivia: the showrunners wanted him to sing "Like a Prayer" (it was on the karaoke wheel) but couldn't get clearance. I'm glad, imo Homeward Bound was just right, it was more personal.
Last edited by biscuitmom; 12-08-2015 at 09:37 PM..
He could have indirectly hurt John by hurting the woman he loves, thus justifying John's shooting of him as act of revenge after the fact. Perhaps John didn't know about the attack until much later. Erika may have been secretive about it until she had kids of her own and realized that Virgil could not under any circumstances be around her children. Only then would she confide her secret to John.
Also - doesn't seem weird and implausible that John would marry the daughter of his rapist? Again - Virgil was Erika's father, not John's.
He could have indirectly hurt John by hurting the woman he loves, thus justifying John's shooting of him as act of revenge after the fact. Perhaps John didn't know about the attack until much later. Erika may have been secretive about it until she had kids of her own and realized that Virgil could not under any circumstances be around her children. Only then would she confide her secret to John.
Also - doesn't seem weird and implausible that John would marry the daughter of his rapist? Again - Virgil was Erika's father, not John's.
Yeah I forgot that Michael said 'your father' to her but I think there is more to it than hurting Erika. Why all the mystery over who he is?
I think John could very well marry the daughter of his rapist.
They could have been childhood friends and that is how Virgil had access to him. John denying it means nothing - a LOT of men will NOT admit sexual abuse.
Virgil saying e hurt John doesn't make any sense if he molested or raped Erica as a child or teen - if it occurred before he met Erika saying he hurt John is too direct.
But anyway, we will find out or we won't. Season was too short! Ready for more!
Oh, and John did kill Kevin because he thought he killed Evie. That wasn't spontaneous. Why do you think he had him in the dog kennel to begin with? And the police let him be alone with him?
First - The police didn't "let" John be alone with Kevin; Kevin went with him willingly.
Kevin hung out with Virgil, and Virgil knew the truth about John abusing Evie perhaps. (Those pies Virgil left on their doorstep - because the family was "in pain." ????)
John suspects Virgil shared these details with Kevin, because Kevin stated that maybe Evie didn't love him after all.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And needing to "choose who you are." (i was trying to see what the other outfits were. Was that a purple alter-boy costume? It had greek letters, he does not seem like a "frat boy type!) 
