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It's a shame that the Cookout won't get the full credit that they deserve as an alliance. Simply agreeing to work together is not enough to make it to the end. They crafted a brilliant strategy and actually had people that were able to win the competitions needed in order to accomplish their goal. The formation of outside duos was critical to their success, and I don't think there was ever another alliance that employed a strategy. And they did all this while remaining unknown as an alliance to their fellow competitors, for while the others started to notice that mostly minorities were still around, i don't think anyone ever put together that the 6 were working together.
It's also going to be interesting to see how they eat their own over the next few week. Usually at this point it is a foregone conclusion on who is going to win but at this point, I think Derick and Azah are the least deserving but may have a better shot to make it to the end because they would be the best person to sit against as the final two.
They get full credit. To sum up this season, racism wins.
Who on earth voted for Big D to win the 100? The way he speaks about women is terrible, using the B word all the time.
The only thing I can figure is that people who wanted to vote for Derek X forgot to put the X in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock
You must have missed it when he explained to the girls in the house that he's gay and they use that word in that community and it's meant as a term of endearment rather than a term of disrespect. And the girls all totally understood and got it and said they are cool with it.
Ohh great, on top of the racism, now we have to give a player a gay pass. He’s a grown a$$ adult, he should know better.
It's a shame that the Cookout won't get the full credit that they deserve as an alliance. Simply agreeing to work together is not enough to make it to the end. They crafted a brilliant strategy and actually had people that were able to win the competitions needed in order to accomplish their goal. The formation of outside duos was critical to their success, and I don't think there was ever another alliance that employed a strategy. And they did all this while remaining unknown as an alliance to their fellow competitors, for while the others started to notice that mostly minorities were still around, i don't think anyone ever put together that the 6 were working together.
It's also going to be interesting to see how they eat their own over the next few week. Usually at this point it is a foregone conclusion on who is going to win but at this point, I think Derick and Azah are the least deserving but may have a better shot to make it to the end because they would be the best person to sit against as the final two.
But this is exactly why today's cry of racism doesn't ring true. None of the others put together that the black contestants were working together - they judged them on character and not on color so actually it proves just the opposite. The majority of Americans ARE NOT racist and there is no need to stack the decks.
I just looked an Danille Reyes - runner up season 2 worked her way there through a white household except for Marcellus. Jun Sung, winner of season 4 - won despite the majority of participants being white.
But this is exactly why today's cry of racism doesn't ring true. None of the others put together that the black contestants were working together - they judged them on character and not on color so actually it proves just the opposite. The majority of Americans ARE NOT racist and there is no need to stack the decks.
I just looked an Danille Reyes - runner up season 2 worked her way there through a white household except for Marcellus. Jun Sung, winner of season 4 - won despite the majority of participants being white.
I think that the issue is that in all of the seasons of regular big brother there has never been a Black winner and there has only been 1 in the final six it the last 6 or 7 years.
However I don't even understand the cry of racism. The people who are crying racism are the ones who stay silent when all male and all female or all "whatever the twist of the season is" alliances are formed. Usually all these alliances get when they are formed is a eye roll and a countdown to their eventual implosion. At this point, I'm not sure if people are mad because the alliance was formed or mad because it succeeded. In all honestly, if they had gone up during Christian's, Derek X, or Sarah Beth's HOH weeks, no one would have called the move racist, just basic game play. But it is the fact that the alliance members played the game well (appearing to be closer to their duo person than another in their alliance, never meeting as group, managing to not let their personal ambitions, issues, and dislikes come above the goal of the group). If anything, those are the various reasons why other large alliances have failed in past.
Another challenge I have those that are claiming racism. Can you please show examples of what the group has done that could be considered racist? Nominating and voting out the non-white houseguests can't be the reason because that is the object of the game. Is it because Derek X or Allyssa weren't included? But I would then argue that the last 4 to go out were also minorities (Asian, Hispanic, LGBTQ) and tied to members of the Cookout so they were also brought along for the ride.
I think that the issue is that in all of the seasons of regular big brother there has never been a Black winner and there has only been 1 in the final six it the last 6 or 7 years.
However I don't even understand the cry of racism. The people who are crying racism are the ones who stay silent when all male and all female or all "whatever the twist of the season is" alliances are formed. Usually all these alliances get when they are formed is a eye roll and a countdown to their eventual implosion. At this point, I'm not sure if people are mad because the alliance was formed or mad because it succeeded. In all honestly, if they had gone up during Christian's, Derek X, or Sarah Beth's HOH weeks, no one would have called the move racist, just basic game play. But it is the fact that the alliance members played the game well (appearing to be closer to their duo person than another in their alliance, never meeting as group, managing to not let their personal ambitions, issues, and dislikes come above the goal of the group). If anything, those are the various reasons why other large alliances have failed in past.
Another challenge I have those that are claiming racism. Can you please show examples of what the group has done that could be considered racist? Nominating and voting out the non-white houseguests can't be the reason because that is the object of the game. Is it because Derek X or Allyssa weren't included? But I would then argue that the last 4 to go out were also minorities (Asian, Hispanic, LGBTQ) and tied to members of the Cookout so they were also brought along for the ride.
I don't know what forums you belong to but there are plenty of people upset with the alliances each and every year.
Had the whites gotten together and systematically voted out all the blacks week after week - you think the other side wouldn't have called racism. Heck they cry racism each time they don't get their way. And yes the fact they didn't include the Asian or Hispanic is racist.
Think what you may - but my friends who are also black, think what they did was wrong. It makes them look like they weren't strong enough going solo to win the game on social contact and game play. Did Obama need a group of blacks to win the WH - no - he won people over with his charm. Did Condelezza Rice or Denzel Washington need a group of people to get where they are today - no they used their minds, talents ect.... Sorry but it makes it look like they can't succeed unless they group up against everyone else.
I don't know what forums you belong to but there are plenty of people upset with the alliances each and every year.
Had the whites gotten together and systematically voted out all the blacks week after week - you think the other side wouldn't have called racism. Heck they cry racism each time they don't get their way. And yes the fact they didn't include the Asian or Hispanic is racist.
Think what you may - but my friends who are also black, think what they did was wrong. It makes them look like they weren't strong enough going solo to win the game on social contact and game play. Did Obama need a group of blacks to win the WH - no - he won people over with his charm. Did Condelezza Rice or Denzel Washington need a group of people to get where they are today - no they used their minds, talents ect.... Sorry but it makes it look like they can't succeed unless they group up against everyone else.
This is exactly what I have been thinking. It isn't hard to have a certain person get to the end if there are 6 people getting you there. This goes for any type of alliance. I would have a lot more respect if one of them got to the end and won on their own smart gameplay. There is no reason why that couldn't have happened.
When people claim that there has always been white alliances that is because of the way BB previously chose houseguests. If the majority of people in the house are white of course it is almost a given that there will be a white alliance. Even if there were only two blacks or two of any other race than white they would have had the same opportunity to win as anyone else if they were a great player.
I've also seen the comment that the blacks are always voted out first. I have watched this show from the very beginning and I don't ever remember any alliance formed that said let's get out the blacks first. If that happened early in the game it was due to the way they played the game just like anyone else who was voted out early.
I also agree with a comment someone made concerning how could the rest of the house not see what was happening and how stupid they are. It makes perfect sense that they didn't see it because being voted out because of their color and racism was not the way they think.
I get so sick of hearing all the crap that is going on in the world today that I like to watch some of the reality shows, as ridiculous as they can be sometimes, just to get my mind off of everything else. What a shame that this season of BB spoiled that.
I think that the issue is that in all of the seasons of regular big brother there has never been a Black winner and there has only been 1 in the final six it the last 6 or 7 years.
However I don't even understand the cry of racism. The people who are crying racism are the ones who stay silent when all male and all female or all "whatever the twist of the season is" alliances are formed. Usually all these alliances get when they are formed is a eye roll and a countdown to their eventual implosion. At this point, I'm not sure if people are mad because the alliance was formed or mad because it succeeded. In all honestly, if they had gone up during Christian's, Derek X, or Sarah Beth's HOH weeks, no one would have called the move racist, just basic game play. But it is the fact that the alliance members played the game well (appearing to be closer to their duo person than another in their alliance, never meeting as group, managing to not let their personal ambitions, issues, and dislikes come above the goal of the group). If anything, those are the various reasons why other large alliances have failed in past.
Another challenge I have those that are claiming racism. Can you please show examples of what the group has done that could be considered racist? Nominating and voting out the non-white houseguests can't be the reason because that is the object of the game. Is it because Derek X or Allyssa weren't included? But I would then argue that the last 4 to go out were also minorities (Asian, Hispanic, LGBTQ) and tied to members of the Cookout so they were also brought along for the ride.
The alliance was formed to include all black players only, in which the group stated so out loud with other members of the alliance.
I don't know what forums you belong to but there are plenty of people upset with the alliances each and every year.
Had the whites gotten together and systematically voted out all the blacks week after week - you think the other side wouldn't have called racism. Heck they cry racism each time they don't get their way. And yes the fact they didn't include the Asian or Hispanic is racist.
Think what you may - but my friends who are also black, think what they did was wrong. It makes them look like they weren't strong enough going solo to win the game on social contact and game play. Did Obama need a group of blacks to win the WH - no - he won people over with his charm. Did Condelezza Rice or Denzel Washington need a group of people to get where they are today - no they used their minds, talents ect.... Sorry but it makes it look like they can't succeed unless they group up against everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj10
This is exactly what I have been thinking. It isn't hard to have a certain person get to the end if there are 6 people getting you there. This goes for any type of alliance. I would have a lot more respect if one of them got to the end and won on their own smart gameplay. There is no reason why that couldn't have happened.
When people claim that there has always been white alliances that is because of the way BB previously chose houseguests. If the majority of people in the house are white of course it is almost a given that there will be a white alliance. Even if there were only two blacks or two of any other race than white they would have had the same opportunity to win as anyone else if they were a great player.
I've also seen the comment that the blacks are always voted out first. I have watched this show from the very beginning and I don't ever remember any alliance formed that said let's get out the blacks first. If that happened early in the game it was due to the way they played the game just like anyone else who was voted out early.
I also agree with a comment someone made concerning how could the rest of the house not see what was happening and how stupid they are. It makes perfect sense that they didn't see it because being voted out because of their color and racism was not the way they think.
I get so sick of hearing all the crap that is going on in the world today that I like to watch some of the reality shows, as ridiculous as they can be sometimes, just to get my mind off of everything else. What a shame that this season of BB spoiled that.
First of all, while there is only one winner of Big Brother, it has never been a solo player game. The only way to win is to walk a fine line of being strong and smart enough to win the competitions, while being sure not to be too dominant so that you are taken out at the first opportunity because you are seen as a competition threat, while and the same time being a nice enough person so that people like you on a personal level that they would like to keep you around. Some of the best solo players never make it to the end because they can't walk that line. I'm thinking of people like Janelle, Rachel, or Frankie Grande. Once they were seen as a threat they were gone when they couldn't win the HOH or veto I can't think of anyone who has played a purely solo game, it can't work and will never happen. However this is the point where their solo games will become much more important but so will there ability to win comps and figure out how to get the most favorable jury. I'm curious to see if Azah and Derek F will be tempting to take to final 2 as they haven't done much to be seen as worthy of winning the game where as any other final 2 pairing (as of now) will have people who can claim comp wins.
Secondly, the very nature of EVERY alliance is let's work together and get everyone else out of the house. That is how the game works, the reason that the Cookout succeeded wasn't ONLY because the Black players decided to work together, it's that they were able to stick to that agreement while strategically knowing when to win and lose competitions. and knowing how to convince others to do what they wanted them to do. Like I said, if Christian or Derek X had put up cookout members, there wouldn't have been a issue. In fact Christian probably should have been the one to do it, but at that point the social game skills had taken over and somehow made it seem like Whitney and Hannah were the best options.
Once you can admit that the main reason that this alliance made it to the final 6 has less to do with race and more with game play the more you can respect what they have done. They are the largest alliance to make make it to the end intact, there were no defections, and they managed not to make their presence know to those outside of the alliance so that there was a reason to put them up together. Now, I do acknowledge that race is a factor in their success in that it was something that they could identify in each other that made them willing to trust each other immediately, it the real world it may only be a temporary connection and will disappear as they get to know each other but in the world of this show, it was enough to keep them together.
First of all, while there is only one winner of Big Brother, it has never been a solo player game. The only way to win is to walk a fine line of being strong and smart enough to win the competitions, while being sure not to be too dominant so that you are taken out at the first opportunity because you are seen as a competition threat, while and the same time being a nice enough person so that people like you on a personal level that they would like to keep you around. Some of the best solo players never make it to the end because they can't walk that line. I'm thinking of people like Janelle, Rachel, or Frankie Grande. Once they were seen as a threat they were gone when they couldn't win the HOH or veto I can't think of anyone who has played a purely solo game, it can't work and will never happen. However this is the point where their solo games will become much more important but so will there ability to win comps and figure out how to get the most favorable jury. I'm curious to see if Azah and Derek F will be tempting to take to final 2 as they haven't done much to be seen as worthy of winning the game where as any other final 2 pairing (as of now) will have people who can claim comp wins.
Secondly, the very nature of EVERY alliance is let's work together and get everyone else out of the house. That is how the game works, the reason that the Cookout succeeded wasn't ONLY because the Black players decided to work together, it's that they were able to stick to that agreement while strategically knowing when to win and lose competitions. and knowing how to convince others to do what they wanted them to do. Like I said, if Christian or Derek X had put up cookout members, there wouldn't have been a issue. In fact Christian probably should have been the one to do it, but at that point the social game skills had taken over and somehow made it seem like Whitney and Hannah were the best options.
Once you can admit that the main reason that this alliance made it to the final 6 has less to do with race and more with game play the more you can respect what they have done. They are the largest alliance to make make it to the end intact, there were no defections, and they managed not to make their presence know to those outside of the alliance so that there was a reason to put them up together. Now, I do acknowledge that race is a factor in their success in that it was something that they could identify in each other that made them willing to trust each other immediately, it the real world it may only be a temporary connection and will disappear as they get to know each other but in the world of this show, it was enough to keep them together.
Simple question, let’s say next year all the white players form an alliance and discuss getting out all non-white players. Would you feel the same way you do about the cookout alliance?
Simple question, let’s say next year all the white players form an alliance and discuss getting out all non-white players. Would you feel the same way you do about the cookout alliance?
Yes i would feel the same way. I have never had an issue with alliances that are formed early on, no matter what their composition. The thing that usually happens with them is that they fail for a variety reasons, usually it is because the alliance members are poor players and never seem to win the comps or as social relationships form over the course of the weeks, someone tends to turn on the group and chaos ensues, or the group becomes the target because it becomes known that they are working together so the alliance becomes the target once they are out of power.
The reason that I'm impressed with the Cookout is that they managed to avoid all of the usual pitfalls of a large early alliance. The other thing that has been refreshing is that there also haven't been any screaming matches or near fights this season. There weren't people feeling like they are being singled out because they never were the "only" or "one of the few" anything in the house.
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He’s a grown a$$ adult, he should know better.
