I Refused Work in CA... Suitable Work/CTB Questions. What to say/not to say during phone interview? (collect, receive)

[Foodserver]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say I've learned a ton reading through all of these posts. This forum, along with reading through EDD's code online, has helped me develop what I hope will be a good case for not going back to my old employer. I understand the risk, and it was worth it to me to turn them down (things had been deteriorating there for awhile) to attempt to get into CTB to help me through my senior year of college.

Now, I'm wondering if anyone could offer tips or help me frame answers for when I have to talk on the phone to EDD.

I started summer classes on 6/15 at a community college. All of these classes are online thanks to COVID with no meeting times scheduled. No able and available conflict. I'm taking 6 units, which is considered full time in the summer. I'm enrolled to start at a state school 16 units in August. I'll graduate in May 2021 with a bachelor's in chemistry. I'm not sure what EDD means by a degree requiring a "training occupation," so I'm not 100% sure I'll qualify for CTB but I'm very hopeful. STEM careers are always in demand. I also fall within the timeframe and claim guidelines to qualify for CTB.

I refused work based on suitability scheduled to begin on 6/19. I'm worried that refusing work and beginning training in the same week will cause a conflict in my case.

Does EDD evaluate these two issues separately? I.E. should I expect 2 interviews, one regarding CTB and one regarding SW? I've called EDD to no avail and have no other resources in which to ask these questions (other than you guys) .

My case against work suitability: I have worked as a food server with a total of 17 years experience. I was on the high end of the income scale for the industry. As the restaurant reopens, as per an email from management, many employees are being brought back to work in unspecified "different capacities or roles" (supporting roles) and we should be prepared to "go with the flow." I inquired via text with the scheduling manager as to what I would be scheduled as upon reopening, and she said most probably I'd be scheduled as a server but nothing is a guarantee. They did have me scheduled as a server the first week back before I indicated to them I would not return. That is easily changeable week by week, though. Any unspecified supporting role earns approximately 33% of what I earn as a server. It would be a huge pay cut to anyone placed in that position.

Even if I WERE to be brought back exclusively as a server, I would be taking a 15.66%-23.5% pay reduction based on the standard 15%-20% gratuity. I did not attempt to negotiate as this is non-negotiable. I can indicate how I got these figures to EDD... if they are ok with me showing them the math. This is happening through an increase in tip share requirements, also documented in an email from management. They're increasing our mandatory tip share from 5% to 8% of our sales upon our return. Tips are considered wages by the EDD, so this pay reduction is valid. Of course our income varies by the day so it could be more or less of a pay reduction depending on the generosity (or not) of the clientele.

With my experience and connections in the restaurant industry, including friendships with hiring managers at multiple other restaurants; and restaurants everywhere now reopening, I feel that I could secure a job that would guarantee me a serving position and would not require me to give away approximately half of my tips.

As far as why CTB, the fate of the entire restaurant industry is somewhat uncertain as nobody can predict the effects of reopening on COVID-19 cases. Yes, I may be able to secure work quickly but what will happen a month from now? Or this winter?

Even if I don't get responses here, I will keep you all updated on how things are going. I'm sure people will be able to learn from my experience with this.


Thank you all.

[Milezsmilez]

CTB requires approval & an info sheet is available on the EDD site (or google) it to find out what is needed to qualify.



When did you start receiving UI Benefits? If it's less than 16 weeks, have you contacted EDD & told them of your interest in CTB?


Have you certified for the week you started summer session or were you already in school prior?

[Foodserver]

Hi Milezsmilez,

Thank you for the response! I applied for benefits on 3/17, and have notified EDD 3 times via “ask EDD” and have gotten an automated response to my EDD messages along the lines of “we have received your message.” I printed one of these out just in case. Nobody from EDD followed up with me and that was months back.

I read and meet all of the CTB criteria to my understanding except for one. I’m not sure if my bachelor’s degree provides a “training occupation,” or what that actually even means. My degree would be in chemistry so could I say I would be a chemist?

The summer session started on 6/15. I was invited to start back to work on 6/19 but declined, which I also will report. I’m can certify for this week tomorrow.

I was in school Spring 2020 but have been out since mid May. I never reported it to EDD as I didn’t “start school or training,” I was already in school or training when I became unemployed.

[Foodserver]

I just certified for the week prior to refusing work/entering training and the week of. So it begins...

What's next? Will they send me a letter with a scheduled phone interview or will they just call me? Do I automatically get a CTB application if I indicate I started school?

[Milezsmilez]

If you were already in school when you became unemployed, then you probably checked "yes" when it asked if you are in school/training on the UI application, right? That usually triggers an interview, but in these times, either it's delayed or they didn't do interviews (or maybe assumed schools all went online & decided not an "available" issue since everyone was locked down, etc)?


Now, when you check "yes" to started training, it typically triggers an interview. First, to determine if it's an available issue & then, if requested, if it qualifies for CTB. By chance, did you check if your training program is on the ETPL list (that's on Cal Jobs site if you haven't been there). It sounds like your program is a 4-year degree & those are typically not "approved training" programs because CTB favors programs that can be completed in 2 years or less (certificates, etc). That doesn't mean your program won't be approved, just that it may not be approved. But, if you believe it meets all the qualifications AND you can prove that your current occupation is declining/not viable (which I guess can be an easy case with restaurant industry struggling now), you might get approved (it's tough to say because approvals for non-approved training is done on a case-by-case basis.).



Finally, yes, the CTB & refusal of work will be adjudicated separately. Even if you're denied CTB, you can be deemed OK to be in school if you can convince them it will not affect your availability to work. As for the refusal, I'm not that familiar with suitability. While wage cuts are a good reason (or if they were going to move you to a role you don't normally do or have experience with, etc), if it's prevailing, I'm not sure how EDD will look on that. Do you have any COVID19-related reasons to refuse work?

[Foodserver]

Hi Milezsmilez (and all),

I reviewed my application for UI and I actually checked no to being in school or having start date for school. I'm not sure what I was thinking but it was likely a mistake as I was flustered (no prior experience with UI or being laid off) and unsure about some of the information EDD was asking for. I hope this doesn't DQ me from anything. I'm hopeful that it won't, as I was already attending school while working full time when I was laid off. Additionally, even when my classes were in person during typical "working hours," I always worked dinner shifts at the restaurant so this was a non-issue.

I am pursuing a 4 year degree but I am due to graduate in May of 2021, so less than a year left. I basically am re-committing to a degree that I started pursuing in 2007, then took some time off.

I could potentially ask my doctor for a letter to isolate. I'm not sure if he would take me seriously, but worth a try. I have intermittent mild asthma and high-ish cholesterol. I'm otherwise probably healthier than a lot of people my age. (i.e. I run, lift weights, etc) If I have a letter as such does it automatically grant me the right to refuse work that puts me in contact with the public?

I was high on the income scale for a foodserver and pay cuts would still put me within prevailing wages. But... that range is huge. Working at Denny's a lot different than working in a high-end steakhouse, for example. There are a lot of high paying serving jobs in CA that I could potentially pursue. That's my logic anyway. I recall cases from EDD's suitability info pages that I read that were similar to mine (different industry though, I think a bookkeeper and a ladies' ready-to-wear salesperson), in which the claimant's experience and prior wages allowed them to refuse work based on suitability/pay too low.

Thank you for answering regarding the separate adjudication of CTB and suitability. Will EDD send me a letter or email stating when my interviews are scheduled, or will they just randomly call me one day?

[Milezsmilez]

It will probably come up, but if it didn't affect your ability to find or be available for work as you said, it may not be an issue. Honestly, unsure how strict they'll be about "no" on the application.


There are expanded criteria for training when the state is under Federal Extended Benefits, but I'm uncertain if the PEUC is considered Federal Extended Benefits-maybe someone more knowledgeable on this can chime in. If it is, then, training longer than 2 yrs is considered as well as training for another specific occupation if the current career opportunities are limited. Given you have less than 2 years left, maybe that will make a difference. Also, if we're not in FED EB, then, usually training for new career occupations by personal choice and/or for higher wages, etc is not a compelling enough reason.



If your training is NOT on the ETPL list (which is may not be bc it's a 4-year program, but do check)--your main hurdles will be to prove that your 1) current career opportunities are limited and 2) your new training occupation is growing a lot more/has more opportunities . Given everything is opening, this may be a challenge & generally hospitality/service tends to have strong growth & job availability in CA (of course, massively impacted by COVID lately & at least thru 2021 which could work for you). Here's the job market link on EDD site to find data for your industry that EDD generally goes by, again, data doesn't factor in covid. http://www.labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov


As for prevailing wage, if you were on the higher end of servers pay (i.e. 5-star dining vs. Chili's) you can definitely state that. Again, I'm not an expert on what is too low, so if anyone knows what % is typically considered too low, please chime in.



You should get notified by letter & your online dashboard for interview times. They may have two interviews or just one. They may send you the CTB application or go thru the interview first. They are inconsistent.


Regarding a COVID related reason for refusing work---see below a FAQ answer from the EDD Covid page. Also, if you believe your employer is not taking appropriate steps to keep you safe, you can try to make a case for that if you have health concerns, but you'd need evidence, not just speculation (i.e. you have seen they don't enforce protocols, etc).:



If the reason you refused to work is considered good cause, you may be able to collect unemployment. Some reasons can include being over age 65 or immunocompromised, or having certain serious health conditions. For more information, view the higher risk factors from the California Department of Public Health.
To learn more about returning to work, visit COVID-19 FAQs.
If your employer meets government safety regulations and offers a healthy work alternative (like teleworking) and you have no other reason to refuse the work, you could be denied unemployment for 2-10 weeks. You should discuss this with your employer before you make a decision.
Note: If you refuse work, you need to report this on your biweekly certification form. We will review your claim and contact you and/or your employer if we need more information.

[Foodserver]

Thank you for the links and for the answers to my questions, Milezsmilez. I checked out the ETPL and my school isn't on it. There are other Cal State universities but not the one that I attend. I will review the labor market info as well.

My argument against the hospitality industry is that with social distancing in place, including table spacing requirements, jobs in the industry are fewer (though I'm not sure if I should state this as in the same week I refused work based on suitability and having alternative job prospects). The potential for future restaurant closings/lockdowns until a vaccine is developed also don't bode well for the industry, thus leading me into a STEM career.

Interestingly, EDD paid me for both weeks: the week ending in 6/13 when nothing changed, and for the week ending in 6/20 when I indicated that I both started school and refused work. Should I set the money aside in a savings account just in case I'm later found ineligible and have to pay it back? At first, the week ending in 6/13 was marked as paid and 6/20 was pending. I checked this morning to find that I had been paid for both weeks and both are listed as paid. No messages are in my EDD inbox thus far.

Finally, does anyone have an idea what I should say regarding marking "no" on my initial application when asked "are you currently attending school or training?" Or... does anyone know the potential effects of this?

Thank you again everyone!

[Milezsmilez]

That's too bad it's not on the ETPL, that would be more straightforward.


That is VERY interesting that your claim was paid checking both those boxes. Especially "refusing work".



It's my understanding that if they approve your payment based on your honest certification, you're in the clear & if they made a mistake, it's not your fault/issue. Can anyone else confirm this? If, for some odd reason, they do ask for it back at some point (could be A LONG TIME given how slammed they are), you can always appeal it & state you certified honestly, etc. & can't pay it back (for whatever reason that applies at that time. i.e. it's gone, you can't pay it back given your financial circumstances, etc).



Similarly, to your question about checking "no" to being in school when you actually were in school on your application---it could also be A LONG TIME before they figure that out. Given it probably wouldn't have affected your approval & you didn't do it fraudulently to get benefits, it's possible it will not be a big issue. But, interested in hearing what others think too.

[Foodserver]

Here's an update for everyone. So, very interestingly, after certifying honestly that I refused work and entered school/training, EDD has continued to pay me without an interview or investigation. I'm not sure why this has been the case, but I have continued to certify and have reverted to answering their certification questions appropriately for the week in which they're asked (no, I didn't refuse work or enter school/training). I'd like to say I feel very lucky this has been the case but I'm uncertain as to whether or not they'll come looking for these funds at a later date.

Does anyone know if, upon an individual answering questions honestly, EDD can come on a witch hunt later on for now what has amounted to thousands of dollars in much-needed assistance? I was prepared and am still prepared to argue why I refused based on suitability of the job offered, and would have done so at the time but they never pursued an investigation.