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Here we get into the reasons anyone belongs to a belief systems and what it will do for them. Quite often it is because we want the benefits of belonging to the club. Whatever those may be. Perhaps it is everlasting life, perhaps it is going to heaven after we die, there are many reasons why someone belongs to a belief system. The aim of it all is to 'be a good person' so that we get the benefits promised. Otherwise, there is no point belonging to the club, we might as well just be a good person without the promised benefits.
Sometimes it is the recovered addict or the person who has been to the depths of living hell who is the best example to others who are on the way down.
Here we go from:
"Should the person praying be doing this for their own reasons? (No perhaps?) Do they know what is 'best' for the sick person?(No perhaps?)"
To:
"Sometimes it is the recovered addict or the person who has been to the depths of living hell who is the best example to others who are on the way down."
Which is totally different than what was being discussed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Just like many of the most successful businessmen have been bankrupt a few times. If they were all "saved" from the depths by the prayers of other helpful people, then there would be no-one who really knows what it is all about. From a higher-self point of view, this maybe the lesson of the lifetime.
If you believe, as I do, that we are much more than just our physical bodies, then we are probably here to fulfill some learning experience for that larger 'self'. Looking at things from this perspective gives many things which happen to us here far more meaning and allows us to step back and see what we can learn from each experience - whether it is a positive or negative experience.
Of course, if I am totally barking up the wrong tree, then things are as you say and I am totally wrong. Thats the risk we take when we subscribe to a set of beliefs.
Your club is still just a club. I am not saying it is any more or less valid than other clubs but it is, by your definition, just a club.
Last edited by Old Guard; 07-27-2016 at 07:24 AM..
Here we get into the reasons anyone belongs to a belief systems and what it will do for them. Quite often it is because we want the benefits of belonging to the club. Whatever those may be. Perhaps it is everlasting life, perhaps it is going to heaven after we die, there are many reasons why someone belongs to a belief system. The aim of it all is to 'be a good person' so that we get the benefits promised. Otherwise, there is no point belonging to the club, we might as well just be a good person without the promised benefits.
Sometimes it is the recovered addict or the person who has been to the depths of living hell who is the best example to others who are on the way down. Just like many of the most successful businessmen have been bankrupt a few times. If they were all "saved" from the depths by the prayers of other helpful people, then there would be no-one who really knows what it is all about. From a higher-self point of view, this maybe the lesson of the lifetime.
If you believe, as I do, that we are much more than just our physical bodies, then we are probably here to fulfill some learning experience for that larger 'self'. Looking at things from this perspective gives many things which happen to us here far more meaning and allows us to step back and see what we can learn from each experience - whether it is a positive or negative experience.
Of course, if I am totally barking up the wrong tree, then things are as you say and I am totally wrong. Thats the risk we take when we subscribe to a set of beliefs.
I will opt out of the discussion after this post, but wanted to address the last part of yours.
My personal belief is that we are here to learn, and also here to teach. To me, praying for someone doesn't conflict with either, it doesn't disrupt or co-opt either. Someone can be in the abyss, be moved to get help because others have prayed for them, be completely healed, and still go on to teach others what they learned. Others may never seek help due to free will.
I don't believe in a God that has us on earth to remain in the depths of hell for an entire lifetime, just so a person learns a lesson. If God is my father, as I believe He is, I cannot see Him doing what no loving parent would do, which is to have a child suffer simply for the sake of learning a lesson, or having others learn it.
But that's my personal opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree.
My personal belief is that we are here to learn, and also here to teach.
If we are here to teach, then at least we have to ensure we are all on the same page and not teaching different things. That would be counter-productive.
In many beliefs, a teacher is someone who is respected. Pupils seek out a particular teacher because they think he/she has something to teach them. When you learn a martial art for example it is generally accepted that the best teachers are the ones who have been taught by Masters of the martial art. As the pupils progress in their learning, then they in turn become Masters in the art too as a result of being taught by a Master.
A single overall God of all religions cannot favour one and if he cannot favour one then it is likely he has devised a system which is 'fair' regardless of beliefs. This would mean a kind of detatched role along with some basic fundemental rules, would make more sense that a one with favourites.
Even fathers have to allow their children to do their own thing until they realise their mistakes. It is sometimes known as tough love. I am sure many will agree that for drug addicts, there comes a time when there is no more practical help a parent can give regardless of how much they love that child.
Some people report a khama-like rule which works as a consequence of energy. If you send out negative energy then you get back the consequence of that negative energy. However, that assumes we know what the consequences of us sending out any kind of energy and currently we do not.
Some people report a khama-like rule which works as a consequence of energy. If you send out negative energy then you get back the consequence of that negative energy. However, that assumes we know what the consequences of us sending out any kind of energy and currently we do not.
Karmas a consequence of negative energys free will; acting on those thoughts, good and bad, or so its said.
Then theres the realm on laws of attraction, thoughts attract and manifest; Like attracts like; in some instances truth. Crime shows the whole in this theory everyday, showing the fallacy in complete free will or is it all part of a greater plan?
Karmas a consequence of negative energys free will; acting on those thoughts, good and bad, or so its said.
Then theres the realm on laws of attraction, thoughts attract and manifest; Like attracts like; in some instances truth. Crime shows the whole in this theory everyday, showing the fallacy in complete free will or is it all part of a greater plan?
Or that people are more the same than different.
Really we all have the same basic needs so is it surprising when we act in similar ways?
I believe that scientists can be fairly accurate in predicting behaviors in large groups of people and are modeling human behaviors to become even more accurate. Now it is harder to predict the behaviors of an individual but I wonder if even that will be possible to do in the future now that we document much more of our lives and communicate over media that is able to record and track our behaviors.
Really we all have the same basic needs so is it surprising when we act in similar ways?
I believe that scientists can be fairly accurate in predicting behaviors in large groups of people and are modeling human behaviors to become even more accurate. Now it is harder to predict the behaviors of an individual but I wonder if even that will be possible to do in the future now that we document much more of our lives and communicate over media that is able to record and track our behaviors.
Psychologists and criminal profilers accurately assess individual behaviors daily. Certain personality types fit predictable behavior patterns. And although you dont agree, astrological signs do as well; and dont think therapists and psych majors dont make use of it.
Psychologists and criminal profilers accurately assess individual behaviors daily. Certain personality types fit predictable behavior patterns. And although you dont agree, astrological signs do as well; and dont think therapists and psych majors dont make use of it.
I don't think many reputable therapists and psychologists make use of it.
Psych majors may because they are in college and you know, "What sign are you?" is still useful sometimes.
I cannot be sure here but I believe that astrology is much older than psychology. If astrology were accurate it would have been successfully weaponized in some way by now. Didn't the Nazi's try?
I completely understand the use of astrology in dating and scamming people out of money. Anything else? Not so much.
If astrology were accurate it would have been successfully weaponized in some way by now.
Many cultures sun worshipped and took notice of star alignments Stonehenge aligned with the stars and solar system as did other ancient monuments too. Not sure how you could weaponize astrology though.
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