Bone Black – Washington State Poltergeist case (Wall Substance) (strange, activity, phenomena)
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"It seems it would be very easy to get this on video since you know one of the triggers. Setup cameras that face each other and have them film each other. You can use WiFi or cables for remote storage.
I wonder what era the Native Americans are from that they would know about digital cameras?"
There comes a time where one reveals there inability to listen. What you just suggested has been tried, tried, retried, and tried again. You don't think I tried what you suggested. I'm beginning to doubt your understanding of what Poltergeist is? What an intelligent haunting, intelligent entity is?
- what about power loss (inexplicable power loss) - what about inexplicable theft of camera ( the entity waits while you're at work, it knows you have to leave your home) If an entity(s) can unplug one camera how hard is it to unplug two cameras. How hard is it to change Mac addresses, manipulate the wifi router, the cable modem, all of the above. Nothing you've suggested hasn't been tried. It was tried for an entire summer.
I think a wise man once said "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" What you suggest tells how much you know about "Geist" more than that how much you understand what it is they do. The more we try, the more stronger they become. The more we try, the more frustration we get because of failure. You think I like buying cameras only to have them turn up missing or crushed to bits when I come home from work. Whether its one camera watching another camera , or five cameras watching five cameras, or ten cameras watching one camera. It all meets the definition of insanity if we tried and failed the first time. Which we did. Next?
"I wonder what era the Native Americans are from that they would know about digital cameras?"
Pure definition of two dimension thinking. You think that just because a spirit was born or might have lived in the 18th or 19th Century means it does not know anything about todays technology. What do you think its been doing for the last 100+ yrs since being dead? Its called Paranormal for a reason. Seriously?
suggestion reading for you will be.
Can we explain the poltergeist?
Owen, A. R. G
Poltergeist Tales of the Supernatural
Price, Harry
and
The Secret History of Poltergeists and Haunted Houses: From Pagan Folklore to Modern Manifestations
Lecouteux, Claude
Each men have traveled the world over and documented cases on 5 continent with cases equal or more severe than my own.
"Say what? Allegedly lighting paper on fire, throwing things, two word hidden audio and moving things? Intelligent like a two year old?"
Intelligent Haunting - are those in which the ghost interacts with the present. It is intelligent, in that the ghost may communicate, or interfere in some fashion, with those of us living on the earthly plane.
Examples of communication 1.) wall writing 2.) disembodied voice 3.) moving or taking of objects
Examples of interference 1. unplugging of objects 2. purposely manipulating objects 3. avoiding detection
Examples of extreme intelligence 1.) sets fires in way that creates fear, but doesn't do significant house damage ( purposely avoids burning the house down) 2. throws objects in close proximity of house occupants. changes trajectory in mid-air to avoid contact. Once again to instill fear but avoid injury* 3. writes your name on the wall, ceiling, or floor. 4. Performs feats that defy the law of physics a) teleport b) asport
"It seems it would be very easy to get this on video since you know one of the triggers. Setup cameras that face each other and have them film each other. You can use WiFi or cables for remote storage.
I wonder what era the Native Americans are from that they would know about digital cameras?"
There comes a time where one reveals there inability to listen. What you just suggested has been tried, tried, retried, and tried again. You don't think I tried what you suggested. I'm beginning to doubt your understanding of what Poltergeist is? What an intelligent haunting, intelligent entity is?
- what about power loss (inexplicable power loss) - what about inexplicable theft of camera ( the entity waits while you're at work, it knows you have to leave your home) If an entity(s) can unplug one camera how hard is it to unplug two cameras. How hard is it to change Mac addresses, manipulate the wifi router, the cable modem, all of the above. Nothing you've suggested hasn't been tried. It was tried for an entire summer.
I think a wise man once said "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" What you suggest tells how much you know about "Geist" more than that how much you understand what it is they do. The more we try, the more stronger they become. The more we try, the more frustration we get because of failure. You think I like buying cameras only to have them turn up missing or crushed to bits when I come home from work. Whether its one camera watching another camera , or five cameras watching five cameras, or ten cameras watching one camera. It all meets the definition of insanity if we tried and failed the first time. Which we did. Next?
"I wonder what era the Native Americans are from that they would know about digital cameras?"
Pure definition of two dimension thinking. You think that just because a spirit was born or might have lived in the 18th or 19th Century means it does not know anything about todays technology. What do you think its been doing for the last 100+ yrs since being dead? Its called Paranormal for a reason. Seriously?
suggestion reading for you will be.
Can we explain the poltergeist?
Owen, A. R. G
Poltergeist Tales of the Supernatural
Price, Harry
and
The Secret History of Poltergeists and Haunted Houses: From Pagan Folklore to Modern Manifestations
Lecouteux, Claude
Each men have traveled the world over and documented cases on 5 continent with cases equal or more severe than my own.
"Say what? Allegedly lighting paper on fire, throwing things, two word hidden audio and moving things? Intelligent like a two year old?"
Intelligent Haunting - are those in which the ghost interacts with the present. It is intelligent, in that the ghost may communicate, or interfere in some fashion, with those of us living on the earthly plane.
Examples of communication 1.) wall writing 2.) disembodied voice 3.) moving or taking of objects
Examples of interference 1. unplugging of objects 2. purposely manipulating objects 3. avoiding detection
Examples of extreme intelligence 1.) sets fires in way that creates fear, but doesn't do significant house damage ( purposely avoids burning the house down) 2. throws objects in close proximity of house occupants. changes trajectory in mid-air to avoid contact. Once again to instill fear but avoid injury* 3. writes your name on the wall, ceiling, or floor. 4. Performs feats that defy the law of physics a) teleport b) asport
Are you a physicist?
Are you?
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your book deal.
OK, I can continue this if you wish but I was bowing out because I believe that at some point the moderator will intervene thinking I am bullying you.
I am intelligent which is why I do not believe your story. It seems you have made your rounds of all of the paranormal boards and the vast majority of them do not believe that anything paranormal is occurring.
You said things were a matter of public record and then mentioned Native Americans. OK, I give you that but what do the public records say that support your poltergeist?
If public safety officials believed there was some non-human entity starting fires in this home they would condemn it and make it unsafe for human dwelling. They have not.
So lets see some of these public records that you are speaking of.
A bad graffiti artist and bad recordings does not an evil spirit make. Just know that none of you EVP's mean anything to me because I would have to trust you, which I do not.
I told you how to get your proof. Aim cameras at each other and catch it messing with the cameras which you say it has a problem with.
Oddly it seemed to have no problem with the GA teams cameras when they recorded their season 10 episode 10 snoozefest.
Last edited by Old Guard; 03-28-2017 at 08:08 AM..
Old Guard you are a career skeptic. I see 0 growth in you. I love nothing more to engage u in the phenomena known as Poltergeist. More that I'd love to engage about our experience, which was four years.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. I gave u public records. Google is your friend, use it. Do your own research on the city and history of Bothell. Hint#1 is a county is named after a Native American tribe that might mean the area might have a native american history. But don't stop there, look up the city of Bothell WA. That's public record. I'm not going to do all your intellectual heavy lifting. Your too busy trying to preserve your disbelief and skeptism.
Everything you've said proves to me you know little about the phenomena known as Poltergeist. I'm gonna need u to read half the books I provided above, read up on Bothell and WA state. Re-read the Bone Back article. Hear the EVP'S again.
The fact that u don't know wall writing is known poltergeist phenomena speaks volumes.
A quick search shows that you have brought this piffle to numerous boards, most of which are full of believers and the reception for the most part has been skeptical.
I even found one where one of the "reports" that you posted was found to have contained a large percentage of plagiarism and nonsensical jargon. After this was exposed you took that report down but luckily some people still had copies.
But it does not matter if I am a skeptic or not. If you have good proof I will be in the minority, but it does not seem I am. I would love to see some evidence from you. I just am highly skeptical of your EVP's and really EVP's themselves are not a scientific process. They are not accepted to be proof of the paranormal by the scientific community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
I see 0 growth in you.
Really? You can see a poltergeist but you cannot see growth in me? Have you listened to my EVP's or reviewed my webbing spray paint graffiti? Maybe I need some catch phrases like "Geist" or "Bone Black" to better market myself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
I love nothing more to engage u in the phenomena known as Poltergeist. More that I'd love to engage about our experience, which was four years.
I would love to see some evidence of this but I have looked and really for the haunting level you claim the evidence does not back it up. This is not just from me, I have read a lot of peoples opinions on your case from even the most receptive boards and this seems to be the overwhelming consensus.
If you were not trying to advertise or market this so heavily I would not even respond. To you the problem is always the other people, not the lack of evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
You can't have your cake and eat it to.
What? Who told you this? Not only can I have my cake and eat it I can choose between having it gifted to me, making it or buying it. I can actually lay my hands on more cake than I have any use for.
Cake is cheap but is empty calories, much like this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
I gave u public records. Google is your friend, use it. Do your own research on the city and history of Bothell. Hint#1 is a county is named after a Native American tribe that might mean the area might have a native american history.
Dude, I have been to Bothell. I have been all over that area. I spent a lot of time in the late in Kirkland before it became overdeveloped. Spent a lot of time at Triple J, Tiki Joe's and the Shark before they closed. Do not fool yourself into believing that you know something I do not.
But the fact that Native Americans lived in the area is not proof of ghosts or poltergeists and if this is your greatest proof than you are using the movie Poltergeist as a documentary. I live in VA and guess what? Native Americans were here as well. Does that mean I have a poltergeist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
But don't stop there, look up the city of Bothell WA. That's public record. I'm not going to do all your intellectual heavy lifting. Your too busy trying to preserve your disbelief and skeptism.
You are the one that said you had public records to bolster your case. If you bring it up you should be able to answer questions. The fact that you are copping out is just further proof to me that there is nothing there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
Everything you've said proves to me you know little about the phenomena known as Poltergeist. I'm gonna need u to read half the books I provided above, read up on Bothell and WA state. Re-read the Bone Back article. Hear the EVP'S again.
Your EVP's are worthless. There are not real, scientific, books on poltergeists to read. There is no textbook. But none of that matters if you have evidence. If you pointed cameras at each other and we saw some stuff I would believe you and if I did not I would be shouted down by those that did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macqdor
The fact that u don't know wall writing is known poltergeist phenomena speaks volumes.
Learn up my friend. Learn up
Is it known? By whom? The group that provided the partially plagiarized report your posted and took down?
Look, I was willing to forget about this but you called me back. Sorry if I am being too harsh but I tried to walk away an I still think I am not being as critical as I could be.
Prior to European settlement, the Sammamish River Valley from Lake Washington to Issaquah Creek south and upstream of Lake Sammamish was inhabited by a population of as many as 200 Native Americans known as the Sammamish. The Sammamish were relocated after the Puget Sound War in 1856 to reservations and non-reservation lands.[7]
In 1870, Columbus S. Greenleaf and George R. Wilson filed land claims in the area formerly inhabited by the Sammamish (tribe) near present-day Bothell,
QUESTION: Wait a minute Ghost Adventures said on "Demons In Seattle" no Natives, or record could be found in and around Bothell. Bothell WA sits in Snohomish County. Who are the Sammamish that use to live in Bothell?
Quote:
The Sammamish (/səˈmæmɪʃ/; indigenously, [t͡saˈpaːbʃ]) people were a Coast SalishNative American tribe in the Sammamish River Valley in central King County, Washington. Their name is variously translated as ssts'p-abc ("meander dwellers", a group residing around Bothwell),[2]s-tah-PAHBSH ("willow people") or as Samena ("hunter people"), which was corrupted into Sammamish.
Quote:
The largest Sammamish village was tlah-WAH-dees at the mouth of the Sammamish River, which at the time was between present-day Kenmore and Bothell, east of its present location at the southwest corner of Kenmore.[6] The mouth of the river moved to the west after 1916, when Lake Washington was lowered nine feet by the United States Army Corps of Engineers.[7] A second Sammamish village with at least one longhousewas located near what is now Issaquah. When Europeans from the Hudson's Bay Company arrived in the area in 1832, the Sammamish had several permanent and seasonal settlements along the length of the river, and numbered as many as 200.[5]
S.E.P Steve Mera and Don Philips captures an EVP under the house where the term "Long House" was uttered.
Quote:
In 1855, the United States government signed the Treaty of Point Elliott with the putative leaders of most of the Puget Sound tribes, including Chief Seattle of the Duwamish.[8] The territorial governor moved to enforce the treaty by relocating the tribes named in the treaty, including the Sammamish. Many of the Sammamish, including a leader known as Sah-wich-ol-gadhw, did not accept the validity of the treaty.[5] Negotiations with Indian agent 'Doc' Maynard were unsuccessful, and in 1856 some of the Sammamish joined in the Battle of Seattle, a raid on the White settler population.[9] After this attack and the brief Puget Sound War, the Sammamish relocated from the river valley to reservations named in the treaty, or to non-reservation lands. Local sawmill owner and real estate developer Henry Yesler, who had previously used local Indians as laborers, aided the removal and relocation. As with the relocation of other Northwest natives, the occupation of lands and the relocation of people was probably significantly enabled by a smallpox plague in 1862 that may have killed as much as half of the remaining native population, as well as by the devastation from the effects of various previous epidemics.[10]
Someone should take these findings and go question Zak Bagans and Dave Schrader. The information isn't even hard to find. They said there research could find no past native tribe living in the area. That's false. Its not only false. Its blatantly false. Its malfeasance.
Wall writing phenomena is a phenomena attributed to Poltergeist and Malevolent activity. The contents is not whats supernatural. "Geist" typically use crayons, pencil, lead, market, ask, and paint. This "geist" chose to use Bone Black. Poltergeist have in the past written various letters and words, always inexplicably.
I in my 3 years of research have yet to come across anything resembling an Upside Down Man.
That symbol is a Native American symbol. It means death or a man has died or is about to die. I didn't invent the definition or the symbol. Certainly didn't scribe it on my wall, a house that I rent. Bothell was home to some of the most violent skirmishes - during the 1800's with settlers and the original people. In addition to death by war, death by small pox also occured.
That writing (Upside Down Man) and the words "long house" and other evidence captured makes us believe some of the events happening in that home might be Native American spirits in nature. There are official native american burial ground less than 5 miles from my house. The investigation is still on-going.
Isn't public information wonderful?
Last edited by macqdor; 03-29-2017 at 12:00 PM..
Reason: errors
GA is entertainment. If I had a ghost problem those clowns are the LAST people I'd ask for help. Although my favorite part of the show is when something "happens" and they start jumping around and yelling dude and bro.
So that fact you were featured on that show really is a strike against you.
My questions are -- what's your end game? Where do you see yourself in five years? And, since it's a rental house...and you no longer live there, do the new residents have the same problems? Because ghosts or no ghosts, a rental in Bothell is gonna be rented. And no one else in the neighborhood had any issues at all?
QUESTION: Wait a minute Ghost Adventures said on "Demons In Seattle" no Natives, or record could be found in and around Bothell. Bothell WA sits in Snohomish County. Who are the Sammamish that use to live in Bothell?
S.E.P Steve Mera and Don Philips captures an EVP under the house where the term "Long House" was uttered.
Someone should take these findings and go question Zak Bagans and Dave Schrader. The information isn't even hard to find. They said there research could find no past native tribe living in the area. That's false. Its not only false. Its blatantly false. Its malfeasance.
Wall writing phenomena is a phenomena attributed to Poltergeist and Malevolent activity. The contents is not whats supernatural. "Geist" typically use crayons, pencil, lead, market, ask, and paint. This "geist" chose to use Bone Black. Poltergeist have in the past written various letters and words, always inexplicably.
I in my 3 years of research have yet to come across anything resembling an Upside Down Man.
That symbol is a Native American symbol. It means death or a man has died or is about to die. I didn't invent the definition or the symbol. Certainly didn't scribe it on my wall, a house that I rent. Bothell was home to some of the most violent skirmishes - during the 1800's with settlers and the original people. In addition to death by war, death by small pox also occured.
That writing (Upside Down Man) and the words "long house" and other evidence captured makes us believe some of the events happening in that home might be Native American spirits in nature. There are official native american burial ground less than 5 miles from my house. The investigation is still on-going.
Isn't public information wonderful?
So there are a few things here.
I do not care if GA got it wrong about Native Americans living in your area or not. These are not the public records I am looking for.
Native American is a very broad term. There were different Native American cultures. Saying that the upside down man was a Native American symbol has no meaning unless you are saying it was a symbol that all Native American cultures used.
"Long House" is English. Why would Native Americans speak English amongst themselves yet write in Native American symbols?
Just having a history of Native Americans in an area is not proof of a haunting.
You kept referencing things being part of public record that backed up your claim. The only reference you have attributed to public records is that there were Native Americans in the area of the home. That is fine but this is not a public record that supports anything paranormal.
EVP's are sketchy at best and there has never been a proven link between recording and paranormal activity.
EVP's are sketchy at best and there has never been a proven link between recording and paranormal activity.
I knew you would say that LOL "EVPs are sketchy" you're bouncing all over the place. If it was just EVP's being provided you might have a leg to stand on. I doubt very seriously you've listened or view the videos on my channel. I doubt very seriously you've equated those videos with other Poltergeist accounts. But lets go back to the EVP for a second. The video I provided has Steve and Don setting up equipment in the hallway. What's captured underneath their convo is two voices. You can't account for them. Guessing or just uttering it could be anything isn't a proper analysis.
The fact of the matter is those voices shouldn't be there. The fact that they're there is the pure definition of paranormal. Paranormal events are phenomena described in popular culture, folklore, and other non-scientific bodies of knowledge, whose existence within these contexts is described to lie beyond normal experience or scientific explanation
Key word being scientific explanation.
I've answered some of your questions. Please answer a few of mine.
1.) What paranormal books have you read?
2.) Who in the paranormal / parapsychology field do you view as legit?
3.) Define what a Poltergeist is?
4.) Whats the difference between a Poltergeist and an Malevolent spirit?
5.) What percentage of Poltergeists involve no human agent?
Answer those questions correctly and I'll feel we're on an even keel.
I'm no expert. I was thrown into this field by an experience. There's no turning back once you witnessed what we've witnessed. Zero turning back. Like the saying goes. You can't unsee something once you see it.
And we've seen lots.
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