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It’s certainly closer today than it was yesterday. I reckon in the next decade, two decades tops. Demographics are on the side of people who want Irish unity.
May I remind you coming from where you do that SF/IRA are a very, very leftist lot and you Yanks go bananas on that corner. If they pursued that Marxist style in your country would be interesting! I am also fortunate to live in a country with a wider political parliament and not have the terrible contradictions that you have over the pond. I have as much of a groan regarding the US wanting to control the world as I do regarding Marxist Irish.
If the other 2 main parties stick by an anti-Marxist crowd of creeps then so be it.
Again, you are missing the point. Whether I agree or disagree with SF's political platform is irrelevant, especially as it relates to my country.
While we do have one party (Democrats) who seem to have lost their collective minds and are pushing socialism as an acceptable alternative to capitalism, I doubt they will gain power.
The pendulum swings back and forth, but never to the extremes over here. Based on our own political interpretation of what constitutes left vs. right, we tend to traditionally be a center right society.
So what might fly in places like Ireland, Scotland or NI, would not get off the ground over here. For example, I doubt we will have a homosexual president, even though one is running for the first time in the Democrat primaries.
Yet Ireland apparently didn't care and elected one.
The days of the Catholic ruling the roost in Ireland seem to have vanished, which is one less excuse for Unionists in NI to object to reunification with Ireland.
SF are more socialist than Bernie. Bernie just wants what comparable countries have. SF are more comparable to momentum movement in the UK Labour Party than to Bernie Sanders. And as for the rest of the US Democrat party they are more akin to Tony Blair so how you can think they are Socialist is beyond me.
SF are more socialist than Bernie. Bernie just wants what comparable countries have. SF are more comparable to momentum movement in the UK Labour Party than to Bernie Sanders. And as for the rest of the US Democrat party they are more akin to Tony Blair so how you can think they are Socialist is beyond me.
This is very correct. Compared to anywhere in Western Europe, the US is very conservative. Keep in mind that Bernie Sanders is called a radical socialist because he supports a socialized national healthcare system and college tuition relief for students who owe tens of thousands of dollars right out of school. From what I understand from my immigrant friends, these are services that are pretty standard in Europe.
SF are more socialist than Bernie. Bernie just wants what comparable countries have. SF are more comparable to momentum movement in the UK Labour Party than to Bernie Sanders. And as for the rest of the US Democrat party they are more akin to Tony Blair so how you can think they are Socialist is beyond me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatDJohns
This is very correct. Compared to anywhere in Western Europe, the US is very conservative. Keep in mind that Bernie Sanders is called a radical socialist because he supports a socialized national healthcare system and college tuition relief for students who owe tens of thousands of dollars right out of school. From what I understand from my immigrant friends, these are services that are pretty standard in Europe.
Not that I want to get too deep into the weeds of American politics vs. that of the RoI, UK, and/or NI, but for comparison purposes lets touch on it.
Rest assured Bernie (who I can respect for being honest and upfront with his leftist ideology) is more radical from an Americn perspective than you two seem to think.
Calling for convicted prisoners (guilty of murder and the like/felonies) to be able vote while in prison, free healthcare for illegal aliens, free college for everyone and forgiving all college debt (only for those who still have it, while everyone who paid off theirs get zilch), seizing portions of property owned by businesses too big to compete against, breaking patents of pharmaceutical companies, open borders, making illegal aliens voting citizens, etc., etc., etc., he seems more communist than socialist.
As to the rest of the Democrats being like Tony Blair, some are just as radical as Bernie, but are better at hiding it.
Regardless, SF in NI and/or the RoI would never fly over here in America. The question is however, are people voting for them because they are the most vocal and worked hardest for a unified Ireland, their leftist political ideology, combination thereof, or other factors?
He really isn’t. And I cannot even fathom how brainwashed you must be to think the party still mostly dominated by Palosi and Clinton types is somehow left wing. It isn’t. You are lying. And should be called out on it. For every Bernie there’s 100 Chuck Schumer’s for every AOC there’s 100 people like Tom Perez.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
Not that I want to get too deep into the weeds of American politics vs. that of the RoI, UK, and/or NI, but for comparison purposes lets touch on it.
Rest assured Bernie (who I can respect for being honest and upfront with his leftist ideology) is more radical from an Americn perspective than you two seem to think.
Calling for convicted prisoners (guilty of murder and the like/felonies) to be able vote while in prison, free healthcare for illegal aliens, free college for everyone and forgiving all college debt (only for those who still have it, while everyone who paid off theirs get zilch), seizing portions of property owned by businesses too big to compete against, breaking patents of pharmaceutical companies, open borders, making illegal aliens voting citizens, etc., etc., etc., he seems more communist than socialist.
As to the rest of the Democrats being like Tony Blair, some are just as radical as Bernie, but are better at hiding it.
Regardless, SF in NI and/or the RoI would never fly over here in America. The question is however, are people voting for them because they are the most vocal and worked hardest for a unified Ireland, their leftist political ideology, combination thereof, or other factors?
`
US politics are to the right of the UK, by a lot. That is not new. Calling people on the left communists isn't new, either. See McCarthyism.
To sum this up, the Democrats are pretty much equal to Tony Blair, at the most. While Bernie is to the left in the US. He is nowhere near as left as SF, who you hold in the highest esteem. And you wonder what RJ goes on about.
He really isn’t. And I cannot even fathom how brainwashed you must be to think the party still mostly dominated by Palosi and Clinton types is somehow left wing. It isn’t. You are lying. And should be called out on it. For every Bernie there’s 100 Chuck Schumer’s for every AOC there’s 100 people like Tom Perez.
I always find it interesting how political labels mean such different things in different countries. For example a Republican (R) means something very different in American than it does in NI/Ireland.
So from an American perspective, I do not need to be "brainwashed" or "lying" when I give an honest perspective.
SF would be considered a communist type party here in America, while over across the pond they seem less so, despite being very left wing.
As to the Democrats (D) in America, I have had family members who were lifelong (D's). I also have had friends and/or have known people who were self proclaimed "yellow dog Democrats".
Yet today some of those very people have left the party because of the rapid and seismic shift in the party.
One point you do make that is accurate is saying for every hard leftist like a Bernie/AOC there are hundreds more associated with Bill Clinton types (Pelosi has been a closet leftist more than you might realize).
Trouble is that the more moderate/centrist Democrats are still around, but no longer seem to set the narrative.
Instead they appease/kowtow to the leftists.
Also when you have every major candidate running for president all raising their hands to acknowledge they would give healthcare coverage to illegal aliens, they jumped the shark for many moderates within the party.
So why have they turned so far left?
I don't know, but it is a fact.
Maybe that is what is happening in Ireland with the emergence of SF who represents a very leftist ideology and maintaining it's EU status.
Obviously Brexit has been a game changer as it applies to NI, and there may be a natural shift to the left as Brexit seemed like the pendulum swinging to the hard right. While I certainly see why some Brits wanted Brexit, there were obviously unintended consequences.
Or in the case of posters like English Dave, NI unifying with Ireland would just be "double prizes".
Since you are from Scotland, do you see the NI situation from a political or a religious standpoint?
I ask because outside of NI, the Scots (at least certain ones like RJ) seem to be wrapped up in an us vs. them mentality with Protestants vs. Catholics.
Christian vs. Christian is alien to us Yanks across the pond, and many a Brit seems to roll their eyes at the sectarian strife in NI as well.
But is parts of Scotland there seems to be a strain of sectarianism only found there and in NI, not in other parts of the UK.
US politics are to the right of the UK, by a lot. That is not new. Calling people on the left communists isn't new, either. See McCarthyism.
To sum this up, the Democrats are pretty much equal to Tony Blair, at the most. While Bernie is to the left in the US. He is nowhere near as left as SF, who you hold in the highest esteem. And you wonder what RJ goes on about.
I probably don't know enough about Blair's overall platforms to be an accurate judge to compare the two, but as I just posted, politics in America and across the pond are harder to pinpoint, since our terminology alone does not mean the same things.
Yes Sinn Fein seems very hard left, bordering upon communism, at least from an economic standpoint.
To say Bernie is a communist compared to them might be a stretch, but he is the closest of any major candidate in the (D) party (with Warren not too far behind).
I have also said SF would never fly over here in America for that reason alone.
The big question, which no one seems to have a handle on yet is why SF has done so well in Ireland this time around?
Nationalists/Republicans would likely say they have been the gold standard and vanguard of the effort to unify NI with Ireland.
However as Roscoe claims, some he met with seemed to not think about that, and were miffed at themselves realizing voting SF in the RoI was increasing the likelihood of that happening.
If that is an accurate interpretation by Roscoe, I wonder why such a thing (even if not the main thrust of their vote) would be so troublesome to them?
Is it the economic burden, fear of sectarian violence touching/infecting the south, or something else?
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,814 posts, read 34,706,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
I probably don't know enough about Blair's overall platforms to be an accurate judge to compare the two, but as I just posted, politics in America and across the pond are harder to pinpoint, since our terminology alone does not mean the same things.
Yes Sinn Fein seems very hard left, bordering upon communism, at least from an economic standpoint.
To say Bernie is a communist compared to them might be a stretch, but he is the closest of any major candidate in the (D) party (with Warren not too far behind).
I have also said SF would never fly over here in America for that reason alone.
The big question, which no one seems to have a handle on yet is why SF has done so well in Ireland this time around?
Nationalists/Republicans would likely say they have been the gold standard and vanguard of the effort to unify NI with Ireland.
However as Roscoe claims, some he met with seemed to not think about that, and were miffed at themselves realizing voting SF in the RoI was increasing the likelihood of that happening.
If that is an accurate interpretation by Roscoe, I wonder why such a thing (even if not the main thrust of their vote) would be so troublesome to them?
Is it the economic burden, fear of sectarian violence touching/infecting the south, or something else?
`
The view of young people can sometimes be at odds with older people because the older people remember things that the younger people have no knowledge of.
For instance McCarthyism. I remember the McCarthy hearings replacing kids shows when I was very small. I didn't understand what was going on at the time. Years later, on the Tonight Show, Johnny Carson interviewed many people who were unable to work in show business for years because of Joe McCarthy. Then I fully understood what had gone on.
Calling Bernie an old communist is a crock. In my opinion, what he wants with the insurance is fine, but the country isn't there. There are too many people who are, in my opinion, right-wing crackpots. There is a mid-ground that no one is talking about.
I can't speak for people in the Republic of Ireland, I don't know how much the young people know about SF and their ties to the IRA. But if they are as ignorant of relatively recent history as young people are in this country good luck to them.
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