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In light of Brexit and our recent US election, a lot of political discussions are taking place. Would anyone like to try to compare the different political parties so that people in the US and people in the UK could start to understand the meanings?
For instance, I hear of Labour, Tory, Liberal, Conservative, Ukip--and there must be others in the UK but I have little idea of what they stand for. In the US we mainly have Liberal (Democrat) and Conservative (Republican).
In light of Brexit and our recent US election, a lot of political discussions are taking place. Would anyone like to try to compare the different political parties so that people in the US and people in the UK could start to understand the meanings?
For instance, I hear of Labour, Tory, Liberal, Conservative, Ukip--and there must be others in the UK but I have little idea of what they stand for. In the US we mainly have Liberal (Democrat) and Conservative (Republican).
I read this post a short time ago and it had more information . what happened to it as I wanted to read and learn.
I read this post a short time ago and it had more information . what happened to it as I wanted to read and learn.
Yes, I posted in it, and now it is gone. Despite the OP supposedly having me on their ignore list, the only response was mine, being critical of the biased way conservatives were characterized in it, then poof it was gone.
Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, she likely read my critique and agreed on some level, though she obviously would be reluctant to admit it. Still I give her credit as being willing to see a differing perspective and moderating.
It also shows a genuine interest in the subject rather than an effort to be ideological.
So this thread should have a much better chance to get views from both sides of the political spectrum.
Yes, I posted in it, and now it is gone. Despite the OP supposedly having me on their ignore list, the only response was mine, being critical of the biased way conservatives were characterized in it, then poof it was gone.
Giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, she likely read my critique and agreed on some level, though she obviously would be reluctant to admit it. Still I give her credit as being willing to see a differing perspective and moderating.
It also shows a genuine interest in the subject rather than an effort to be ideological.
So this thread should have a much better chance to get views from both sides of the political spectrum.
I took you off Ignore to read what you had to say in this thread. No, I did not read what you said in the other thread.
I genuinely would like to know what people mean when they talk about political parties. We can't communicate if we don't know what the terms even mean. As I said in the vanished thread, I think most of us in the US are caught somewhere in the middle. I believe that both parties have gone to the extreme. There is a whole lot of overlapping between Democrat/Liberal/Left and Republican/Conservative/Right and that's where most of us fall. The leaders, however, seem to be extremists on both sides.
Actually, this wondering what the UK parties stand for started for me back in England with my cousin saying she hated the Liberals. That sounded odd because she would definitely be a liberal if she lived here. So what is a Liberal in the UK? What are their other parties like?
I took you off Ignore to read what you had to say in this thread. No, I did not read what you said in the other thread.
I genuinely would like to know what people mean when they talk about political parties. We can't communicate if we don't know what the terms even mean. As I said in the vanished thread, I think most of us in the US are caught somewhere in the middle. I believe that both parties have gone to the extreme. There is a whole lot of overlapping between Democrat/Liberal/Left and Republican/Conservative/Right and that's where most of us fall. The leaders, however, seem to be extremists on both sides.
Actually, this wondering what the UK parties stand for started for me back in England with my cousin saying she hated the Liberals. That sounded odd because she would definitely be a liberal if she lived here. So what is a Liberal in the UK? What are their other parties like?
A Liberal in the UK would be a supporter of the Lib-Dem Party. They are essentially centrists but were tarnished by going into coalition with the Conservatives in 2010 and paid for that electorally in 2015.
The UK does not generally use the US terminology of Liberals vs Conservatives and tend to use 'left' and 'right'. Thus the Conservatives are generally considered 'the right' even though they run the gamut from right of center all the way to harder right wing views. Same for Labour on the left.
As in the USA, most elections are decided by centrist voters swinging one way or another. However, Scotland and Northern Ireland are different as the constitutional question is increasingly defining voter allegiance. The SNP, for example, are a catch-all party with one overriding aim which is independence.
I took you off Ignore to read what you had to say in this thread. No, I did not read what you said in the other thread.
Well that kind of defeats the purpose of putting someone on the ignore list in the first place, to selectively pick and chosse what to read, does it not?
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I genuinely would like to know what people mean when they talk about political parties. We can't communicate if we don't know what others think
I added those two words to make the point that ignore lists kind of defeat your intended statement, do they not
I mention this again not because you putting me on your personal ignore list hurts my feelings. Rather it is perplexing that you respond to and exchange ideas with posters who call names and are dispresptful. In my case, I just articulated an opposing point of view in a rational and logical way, yet you felt compelled to let me know I was being ignored. I doubted you really put me on such a list, but it made no sense even to say you were going to.
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As I said in the vanished thread, I think most of us in the US are caught somewhere in the middle. I believe that both parties have gone to the extreme. There is a whole lot of overlapping between Democrat/Liberal/Left and Republican/Conservative/Right and that's where most of us fall. The leaders, however, seem to be extremists on both sides.
Here is an area we both agree and disagree on. The USA is a center-right country as has been proved by the elected representatives on both the state and national level. So moderate to conservative is about right. (You cannot count Trump as he is a unique animal in political terms).
As to both parties having gone extreme, this is a common mistake perpetuated by the hard left and complicit mainstream media.
Modern Democrats like JFK, LBJ, Carter or even Bill Clinton could not get their parties nomination in this day and age.
Yet rest assured all of the former Republicans would be able to run for and potentially win the nomination today, especially Reagan.
But you know what, don't take my word for it (because you probably think of me as some hard right conservative), look it up for yourself. Go back to the late 1990's and see what Bill Clinton promoted and the Democratic platform was then, compared to 2016.
You might be shocked to find how far left the Democrats have gone with regard to law & order, military, religion, homosexuality, etc.
Then look at the Republican platform of the 1990's and that of any of the aforementioned Republican presidents. You would find that they are about the same, maybe even a little more moderate. This obviously will not jibe with your thought that both parties have become extreme.
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Actually, this wondering what the UK parties stand for started for me back in England with my cousin saying she hated the Liberals. That sounded odd because she would definitely be a liberal if she lived here. So what is a Liberal in the UK? What are their other parties like?
Again, here we agree.
For example, an Irish Republican in Northern Ireland would be a far cry from that of an American Republican. The main party in the north of Ireland (that is Republican) is Sinn Fein, and they are extremely liberal by American standards. So what might warrant derision in the UK by your cousin might be a different thought process compared with American politics.
That is why I think this subject will have legs if people are interested in comparing the two.
'One Nation Conservatives' 'Tory Wets' which are more centre ground and to the left of the Conservative Party are probably more equivalent to Democrats, whilst the Right of the Conservative Party, the 'Tory Dries', would be more akin to the Republicans.
In terms of the current supposed opposition, the deeply devided Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn that would be considered Communist in the US, and the Liberals (a minority party with currently only nine MP's) are also much more left wing than the US Democrats.
A similar split in the Labour party to that of the Tory Party, indeed so called 'New Labour' under leaders such as Tony Blair was far more to the centre ground of British Politics and indeed US Democrat Party than the current Left of the Labour Party which are now the dominant force in the party under the current leadership.
Last edited by Brave New World; 02-05-2017 at 03:16 PM..
'One Nation Conservatives' 'Tory Wets' which are more centre ground and to the left of the Conservative Party are probably more equivalent to Democrats, whilst the Right of the Conservative Party, the 'Tory Dries', would be more akin to the Republicans.
In terms of the current supposed opposition, the deeply devided Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn that would be considered Communist in the US, and the Liberals (a minority party with currently only nine MP's) are also much more left wing than the US Democrats.
A similar split in the Labour party to that of the Tory Party, indeed so called 'New Labour' under leaders such as Tony Blair was far more to the centre ground of British Politics and indeed US Democrat Party than the current Left of the Labour Party which are now the dominant force in the party under the current leadership.
So the current Labour Party has gone more to the left? Oh--Jeremy Corbyn's party! And then the Liberals are somewhat to the right of them but still leftist. And our Democrats would be similar to your One Nation Conservatism that is in power now.
So your Tory Dries would be more like our Republicans.
I'm drawing a diagram so I can figure this out! No wonder we often don't understand what the other country means when they use their political terms. The USA must be like your Tory Wet vs your Tory Dry?
I do like using left or right instead. Maybe with a numbering system as to how far either way, lol.
'One Nation Conservatives' 'Tory Wets' which are more centre ground and to the left of the Conservative Party are probably more equivalent to Democrats, whilst the Right of the Conservative Party, the 'Tory Dries', would be more akin to the Republicans.
In terms of the current supposed opposition, the deeply devided Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn that would be considered Communist in the US, and the Liberals (a minority party with currently only nine MP's) are also much more left wing than the US Democrats.
A similar split in the Labour party to that of the Tory Party, indeed so called 'New Labour' under leaders such as Tony Blair was far more to the centre ground of British Politics and indeed US Democrat Party than the current Left of the Labour Party which are now the dominant force in the party under the current leadership.
I refuse to click on Wiki, as it is the tool of the lazy/ignorant (no personal offence intended,,,I threw in a "c" instead of an "S" we Yanks use as good faith).
On of my questions would be whether someone like great Brit leaders in Churchill or Thatcher would recognize either the Conservative or Tory party of today? Could either get their parties nomination or be elected today?
I refuse to click on Wiki, as it is the tool of the lazy/ignorant (no personal offence intended,,,I threw in a "c" instead of an "S" we Yanks use as good faith).
On of my questions would be whether someone like great Brit leaders in Churchill or Thatcher would recognize either the Conservative or Tory party of today? Could either get their parties nomination or be elected today?
Churchill was first a Conservative, then a Liberal and then a Conservative again. For much of his political career he was regarded with suspicion by his party leadership and was very much an outsider. He was a great war leader but was an indifferent peacetime one. So it is highly likely that he would not be elected leader today.
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