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Here's another example of "upscale casual." Reservations on weekends are encouraged but not mandatory. You "should" dress nicely but I've shown up in shorts and a cotton shirt and sandals and been welcomed in: https://www.dakotasintyler.com/
Now here is a place that would be considered "fine dining" in the Tyler area - once again, reservations are encouraged but not mandatory (but good luck getting a table without one, especially on a weekend). Most people who go to Bernards dress nicely - not in a tuxedo or evening gown (though you might see those here) but just not shorts and flip flops: https://www.bernardstyler.com/
Here's another upscale place that's sort of between fine dining and upscale casual - more fine dining on the weekends and a dress code for dinner but not for lunch or breakfast: https://kiepersol.com/restaurant
Casual - but delicious food - no table cloths and no one would think it was "fine dining" but there's nothing plastic about any of the dishes. Oh and you can order wine or cocktails here too: https://www.roastsocialkitchenmenu.com/
Just a typical smallish metro area in the US - 250k or so - in the south.
And yeah - we have fast food too.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go eat leftover pork loin and veggies that I cooked yesterday - and I plan on using a real knife and fork (as opposed to plastic) - and I'll have a glass of cabernet sauvignon to go with it.
Only people under the age of three. While I admit I don't know exactly whom Roscoe has met, I have a very very hard time believing that he personally knows multiple Americans who not only order takeout for every single meal, they only order finger foods.
US companies squelched long boozy lunches back in the 70s and 80s.
Fine dining used to be in restaurants in country clubs and private institutions. No serfs allowed. No need to give it a name to scare off the serfs.
Have you ever spent time in Philadelphia or the Main Line? The Main Line has old money vs new money, which you probably found in Florida. There's a distinct difference.
Americans are easily overawed when eating out.
They love a bit of bowing and scraping.
It's why we call Gordon Ramsay by his name over here yet across the pond he's known as Chef Ramsay.
In fact any two-bit cook with his name on a white tunic calls himself Chef this or Chef that.
As I say the idea of " fine-dining " or eating out somewhere posh as we call it went out of the window about the same time they stopped serving oxtail soup at your table from a tureen on a trolley.
So I can see why some folk wax lyrical about a piece of deep-fried chicken in a bun served by someone who doesn't communicate by grunting.
Americans are easily overawed when eating out.
They love a bit of bowing and scraping.
It's why we call Gordon Ramsay by his name over here yet across the pond he's known as Chef Ramsay.
In fact any two-bit cook with his name on a white tunic calls himself Chef this or Chef that.
As I say the idea of " fine-dining " or eating out somewhere posh as we call it went out of the window about the same time they stopped serving oxtail soup at your table from a tureen on a trolley.
So I can see why some folk wax lyrical about a piece of deep-fried chicken in a bun served by someone who doesn't communicate by grunting.
Actually we call Gordon Ramsay "Gordon Ramsay." Or rather, other people do or so I've heard - I don't follow him. But I looked him up. Apparently Londoners are pretty impressed with him, since his "signature restaurant, which is in London, holds 3 Michelin stars. He also owns three pubs in London.
Ramsay owns 19 restaurants in Europe (most of those in England), 10 restaurants internationally but outside the US (including in Tokyo and Dubai - for a total of 29 restaurants outside the US) and 12 in the US (5 in Las Vegas).
He became head chef (term used locally) when working in a restaurant in Chelsea.
I don't blame you for not being all that excited though about British food and British restaurants. I mean, from what I've experienced they're certainly, well, OK, but it's not like British cuisine is known for being fabulous.
I realize by the way that you are trying to be inflammatory. It's sort of cute.
Actually we call Gordon Ramsay "Gordon Ramsay." Or rather, other people do or so I've heard - I don't follow him. But I looked him up. Apparently Londoners are pretty impressed with him, since his "signature restaurant, which is in London, holds 3 Michelin stars. He also owns three pubs in London.
Ramsay owns 19 restaurants in Europe (most of those in England), 10 restaurants internationally but outside the US (including in Tokyo and Dubai - for a total of 29 restaurants outside the US) and 12 in the US (5 in Las Vegas).
He became head chef (term used locally) when working in a restaurant in Chelsea.
I don't blame you for not being all that excited though about British food and British restaurants. I mean, from what I've experienced they're certainly, well, OK, but it's not like British cuisine is known for being fabulous.
I realize by the way that you are trying to be inflammatory. It's sort of cute.
I'm not sure you get it.
We know Gordon Ramsay is a chef.We just don't address him as Chef Ramsay as many Americans address chefs as though they're some sort of religious deity.
I've had many good meals in restaurants in the UK and the USA.
Deep-fried chicken in a bun has never been one of them ...
Actually we call Gordon Ramsay "Gordon Ramsay." Or rather, other people do or so I've heard - I don't follow him. But I looked him up. Apparently Londoners are pretty impressed with him, since his "signature restaurant, which is in London, holds 3 Michelin stars. He also owns three pubs in London.
Ramsay owns 19 restaurants in Europe (most of those in England), 10 restaurants internationally but outside the US (including in Tokyo and Dubai - for a total of 29 restaurants outside the US) and 12 in the US (5 in Las Vegas).
He became head chef (term used locally) when working in a restaurant in Chelsea.
I don't blame you for not being all that excited though about British food and British restaurants. I mean, from what I've experienced they're certainly, well, OK, but it's not like British cuisine is known for being fabulous.
I realize by the way that you are trying to be inflammatory. It's sort of cute.
I have family members who enjoy cooking shows, so they are often on in my house, and I have never heard Gordon Ramsay called anything but Gordon Ramsay.
It's sweet of you to say Roscoe is cute, but I find his Eurosupremacism extremely boring.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscoe Conkling
Americans are easily overawed when eating out.
They love a bit of bowing and scraping.
It's why we call Gordon Ramsay by his name over here yet across the pond he's known as Chef Ramsay.
In fact any two-bit cook with his name on a white tunic calls himself Chef this or Chef that.
As I say the idea of " fine-dining " or eating out somewhere posh as we call it went out of the window about the same time they stopped serving oxtail soup at your table from a tureen on a trolley.
So I can see why some folk wax lyrical about a piece of deep-fried chicken in a bun served by someone who doesn't communicate by grunting.
I'm not sure whose acquaintance you've made over here.
Just to deal with a few of your statements: a lot of Americans will ask the waitstaff "What do you recommend?" They aren't asking out of insecurity or stupidity. Some chefs are better at some dishes than others. The waitstaff should know what looks like the better deal than the customers, or if something particularly good came in that day.
Chefs - over here, they've had specific training. Without that training, they're just a cook.
My dad had a cousin who owned and ran a fancy restaurant, back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. No he wasn't a chef. By today's standards, it would have been called fine dining. It was connected to a private golf course, no kids allowed, formal attire.
Roscoe, sure most Americans eat fast food, like brits eat fish & chips, but that doesn't mean you have a clue what your talking about, particularly since your US experience is clouded by owning a house in the Redneck Riviera. Try lecturing Darina Allen instead.
It's not yet 15 years since Michelin published its first US restaurant guide (NYC 2005)), and NYC has already overtaken London (1st published 1926) with the number of starred restaurants. Check it out, eat some humble pie. The US currently has three cities in the top 12 globally. After just 14 years US now has three times as many three stars as the UK has accumulated in 93 years.*
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Location: Great Britain
27,185 posts, read 13,469,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeMilligan's Alter Ego
Roscoe, sure most Americans eat fast food, like brits eat fish & chips, but that doesn't mean you have a clue what your talking about, particularly since your US experience is clouded by owning a house in the Redneck Riviera. Try lecturing Darina Allen instead.
It's not yet 15 years since Michelin published its first US restaurant guide (NYC 2005)), and NYC has already overtaken London (1st published 1926) with the number of starred restaurants. Check it out, eat some humble pie. The US currently has three cities in the top 12 globally. After just 14 years US now has three times as many three stars as the UK has accumulated in 93 years.*
I am not sure how this went from fast food to Michelin Stars.
I would however be careful of throwing figures around, or claiming the US has more Michelin Stars, as the UK now has 186 Michelin starred restaurants compared to the last figures available for the US which was 148.
As for three starred Michelin restaurants NYC has five, London has three, however there are a further two just to the West of London near Windsor.
The rest of Americas three starrred Michellin restaurants are on the West Coast, meaning that there isn't a vast amount of three star restaurants inbetween.
So I don't think a much smaller country such as the UK needs to eat any humble pie in resect of Michelin, although Michelin itself has been the subject of much criticism with it's preference for fussy food and maticulous OCD type preperation that has even seen people hand their stars back. Michelin likes French and Japanese cusine in this respect however you will find few Indian restaurants or other cusines on the Michelln lists of starred restaurants, and apparently even Italian food lacks the complexity that Michelin craves, so even Italian restaurants and Italian cusine is notably underrated by Michelin.
America has some superb restaurants as does the UK, however to just use Michellin, a rather biased guide to try and prove a point is not proving anything, as it's a highly cricised guide to start with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.A. Gill
But still, Michelin has launched in a number of foreign countries. And though it claims its standards are universal and unimpeachable, it proves how Francophile and bloated and snobbish the whole business really is and that, far from being a lingua franca, the food on our plate is as varied as any other aspect of a national culture.
For instance, Italy has absurdly few three-star restaurants, apparently because the criteria of complexity and presentation aren’t up to Michelin—French—standards, and the marvelously rich and varied curries of India plainly seem to baffle the guide.
The city with the most stars is Tokyo, but then, many of its restaurants have barely a handful of chairs, and most benefit from the Gallic reverence for O.C.D. saucing and solitary boy’s knife skills.
In both London and New York, the guide appears to be wholly out of touch with the way people actually eat, still being most comfortable rewarding fat, conservative, fussy rooms that use expensive ingredients with ingratiating pomp to serve glossy plutocrats and their speechless rental dates.
Michelin still holds a withered widow’s grip on the aspirations of cooks. Few will criticize the guide publicly. Privately, there are many who despair of its limited scope, its snobbery, its fatty favorites.
Off the record, one starred chef told me that he dreaded its annual publication not because he might lose his status but because for the next month the booking would be full of customers with faces like smacked bottoms who complained about everything. He says the temperature in the dining room drops until you can almost see your own breath. Michelin has produced a legion of miserable gourmands, people who care more about the valet parking than conviviality—which I suppose was rather the point in the first place.
I'm not sure whose acquaintance you've made over here.
Just to deal with a few of your statements: a lot of Americans will ask the waitstaff "What do you recommend?" They aren't asking out of insecurity or stupidity. Some chefs are better at some dishes than others. The waitstaff should know what looks like the better deal than the customers, or if something particularly good came in that day.
Chefs - over here, they've had specific training. Without that training, they're just a cook.
My dad had a cousin who owned and ran a fancy restaurant, back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. No he wasn't a chef. By today's standards, it would have been called fine dining. It was connected to a private golf course, no kids allowed, formal attire.
Golden rule of restaurants.
You ask wait staff what they'd recommend and usually it's the slow-moving dishes.
And " some chefs are better at some dishes than others " is a new one on me.Either the restaurant can cook what's on the menu or it can't.
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