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absolutely, whilst we wish all the best to our cousins across "the pond", we can do without the continual interference of the politicos in our domestic policy.
Brexit and our dealings with the EU are non of America's business and especially no business of Pelosi and that plastic paddy in the White House.
What's a plastic Paddy? A person's DNA defines what ethnicity they belong to. An American whose ancestors emigrated from Ireland four generations ago is still Irish by that definition. Moving from one country to another has nothing to do with it.
Last edited by James Austen; 06-02-2022 at 09:29 AM..
As for US bases they have largely disappeared, with the largest in the North having been the vast US base ar Burtonwood, which was once home to 18,000 US Service Personnel.
Today there's nothing there except a motorway service station and some industrial units, you wouldn't even know a US base had ever existed on the site.
The same is true of Sculthorpe, which was home to 10,000 US Personnel, as well as Weathersfield, Woodbridge, Bentwaters, Upper Heyford, Greeham Common, Little Rissington, Chelveston, Bruntingthorpe, Alconbury, Upwood, High Wtcombe, Manston, Chicksands etc etc.
Menwith's day will come, and the more US political interference and US threats, the sooner that day will be.
Still have trouble trying to fathom your apparent reasoning that the US military presence in Britain was some kind of "occupation"
They were there by the express will of successive British governments. Had the Europeans been capable of providing their own adequate defenses against possible aggression by the Soviet Union then the necessity for America having to be in Europe would not have existed.
Truman was dead set on pulling all US military out of Europe in 1945 but Winston Churchill quite correctly warned against future problems with Stalin, especially after the fall of Poland, Hungary and Czecheslovakia to Communist governments. Like it or not that's history
You aren't British and certainly don't speak for the people of Britain.
British forummers such as easthome and Big Paul share similar views to myself and many other British people.
I certainly am British.
The three 'forummers' speak no more for the 'people of Britain' than I. I however speak for a ever growing number of Brits who are getting fed up of Daily Express readers and moronic right wing tory politicians dictating our profile at home and overseas. Your time is up, enjoy it while it lasts.
Still have trouble trying to fathom your apparent reasoning that the US military presence in Britain was some kind of "occupation"
They were there by the express will of successive British governments. Had the Europeans been capable of providing their own adequate defenses against possible aggression by the Soviet Union then the necessity for America having to be in Europe would not have existed.
Truman was dead set on pulling all US military out of Europe in 1945 but Winston Churchill quite correctly warned against future problems with Stalin, especially after the fall of Poland, Hungary and Czecheslovakia to Communist governments. Like it or not that's history
I never said that the presence in Britain was some kind of "occupation".
As I have already explained, the US can not expect the same relationship it once had, and we all recognise the special relationship is over, and therefore all I am suggesting is the UK reviews it's relationship with the US, and has a similar relationship to our neighbours France.
I don't feel any less safe in France without US bases in the country, whilst in terms of extradition, again the UK should have a similar arrangement to France, Germany and many other European countries who are close allies of the US.
The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact is long gone, and US bases including spy bases relied on a special relationship and good relations, however these relations have been eroded by recent US administrations and pointless US led wars.
Obama, was the start of the weakening of the Special Relationship, and his interference in Brexit, back fired, as the British don't like interference from the US or other countries.
Then you had Trump who put the very credibility of NATO in to question, and he both questioned the US membership of NATO and Article 5.
Then you have the disaster that is Biden, with his withdrawal from Afghanistan without consulting NATO allies, saw the relationship erode further and NATO erode further.
Whilst Biden, Pelosi and others in Congress are again interfering in UK Domestic and Constitutional affairs, and even issued a demarche against Britain, a demarche is a formal diplomatic communication or protest lodged with a government, usually reserved for an adversary or enemy.
In terms of the future of NATO it has been thrown a lifeline through Putin's idiotic invasion of Ukraine, however whether this is enough to save it remains uncertain.
The Special Relationship is now a joke and was even a source of amusement to Obama, despite the fact 636 British Service Personnels lives were lost in the US War on terror, and many more thousands suffered horrific life changing injuries.
In fact there almost seems like a callous disregard for the British dead, and even a callous disregard in the case of Harry Dunn, who was killed outside a US base whilst riding his motorbike.
It just seems with the death of the Special Relationship, the mess that is US foreign policy including pointless wars, and the interference in UK politics is starting to see a change in UK politics.
For instance you will never hear Boris Johnson mention the Special Relationship, and strategists were talking about the need to move away from US foreign policy and even NATO just last year, and issues such as the US/UK extradition treaty and the disgusting interference by the Biden Administration has just made things worse.
Last edited by Brave New World; 06-02-2022 at 12:52 PM..
There were even fall outs between US and British troops during the withdrawal from Afghanistan, as pointed out by Tom Tugendhat, who is one of the favourite candidates in any leadership battle to replace Boris Johnson.
This is the true state of the so called Special Relationship, and this is the reason Britain's relationship with the US needs to be more similar to that of our European neighbours France and indeed in terms of extradition Germany as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Spectator
Most powerfully, he launched an attack on President Biden for his statement on Monday night in which he blamed the Afghan forces for not fighting back against the Taliban. He said: 'To see their Commander in Chief call into question the courage of the men I fought with, to claim that they ran. Shameful. Those who have never fought for the colours they fly should be careful about criticising those who have.'
Afghanistan dont matter any more and I dont understand why some still make an issue out of it. It's a failed State. always was a failed State and always will be a failed State dominated by religion and all the gobbeldygook that goes with any religion in general.
It was Republican Bush who got us into it, cost the lives of a few thousand US soldiers and ruined the lives of many others.
Biden described the war in Afghanistan (before the withdrawal after 20 years of achieving nothing) as a "war belonging to yesterday" and he was absolutely right.
The regime was absolutely corrupt, the Afghan army as it was proved at the withdrawal absolutely useless and terrified of the Taliban.
The Imperial British were glad to get out. So were the Soviets. Good riddance.
I remember hearing on the news not long after the Brexit vote that the majority of Scots had voted to remain and the same in Northern Ireland. The majority in south east England also favored remaining. If the situation has changed since I'm not aware of it.. I also understand that one of the reasons for Brexit was an immigration issue which seems to me that barring out immigrants was worth risking future growth and prosperity, I can well remember the state of Britain back in the 1970s, industrial strikes, unemployment, an economy that was just about at the same level as that of Greece and Britain desperate to join what was then the Common Market. I can also recall returning to Britain on a trip almost two decades later and seeing the changes, overall much for the better. I was struck by the prosperity especially compared to what it had been in the 60/70s.
I sincerely hope that the UK does hold together and prospers in it's new independent role. I dont see the country having to ally itself with the US militarily anytime in the future since the US has seriously backed off the policy of "regime change" the overwhelming majority of Americans totally against any future foreign adventures, possible war with Russia if Putin attacks a NATO country aside of course.
As far as America's trade policies are today the move towards the Pacific Rim market has been coming for a long time and of course China's emerging military strength and North Korea have become concerns that occupy US administrations these days since south east Asia, Australia and New Zealand share the same concerns although China has some serious internal problems of it's own to deal with and it's economy has taken a beating since Covid hit the country
Immigration may have been one of many reasons but it was certainly NOT one of the main reasons that was just 'remainer' propaganda and it was NOT just 'immigration' but GAINING CONTROL of its own immigration! And its now nearly 6 years since the 'vote' and NONE of the doomsday scenario's that remainers used to try and convince people to stay tied to that corrupt organisation otherwise known as the EU have come to pass, just like we knew it wouldn't! Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, Norway and Switzerland are doing rather well outside the EU, if you can think of one good reason why the UK is incapable of repeating their success I'd like to hear it?
Immigration may have been one of many reasons but it was certainly NOT one of the main reasons that was just 'remainer' propaganda and it was NOT just 'immigration' but GAINING CONTROL of its own immigration! And its now nearly 6 years since the 'vote' and NONE of the doomsday scenario's that remainers used to try and convince people to stay tied to that corrupt organisation otherwise known as the EU have come to pass, just like we knew it wouldn't! Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, Norway and Switzerland are doing rather well outside the EU, if you can think of one good reason why the UK is incapable of repeating their success I'd like to hear it?
Norway has a population of around 4 -5 million and a lot of oil on it's shores. I'm sure that poverty, homelessness and unemployment is not one of it's problems. With such a small population social and health care services don't drain the national budget either nor does having to foot a great big military budget. Much the same in Switzerland I would imagine.
How is the national economy doing in the UK these days by the way?
Afghanistan dont matter any more and I dont understand why some still make an issue out of it. It's a failed State. always was a failed State and always will be a failed State dominated by religion and all the gobbeldygook that goes with any religion in general.
It was Republican Bush who got us into it, cost the lives of a few thousand US soldiers and ruined the lives of many others.
Biden described the war in Afghanistan (before the withdrawal after 20 years of achieving nothing) as a "war belonging to yesterday" and he was absolutely right.
The regime was absolutely corrupt, the Afghan army as it was proved at the withdrawal absolutely useless and terrified of the Taliban.
The Imperial British were glad to get out. So were the Soviets. Good riddance.
The US led war on terror was a disaster, which was epitomised by Biden's pathetic withdrawal without even bothering to inform other NATO and allied partners.
As a result, countries will be far more wary and cautious in terms of joining future US led operations and wars, and Tom Tugendhat, a politician I rate, was scathing of Biden in his Parliamentary Speech, and even suggest we move to new alliances rather than rely on one country (the US) and it's leader (Biden).
Tugendhat, has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, as an Intelligence Officer and held the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
Tugendhat is one of the favourites in terms of a possible Tory Leadership battle and may yet become Prime Minister.
However Liz Truss remains the favourite in terms of becoming the new Prime Minister, with Truss recently rejecting a plea from Biden ally Richard Neal, not to rewrite the Northern Ireland protocol.
This puts the US and UK on a collision course, and if the US takes a hard line on the issue, and keeps making threats, then the UK may well have to review relations, including extradition, US bases, future cooperation and future foreign policy.
In terms of extradition, a similar system to that of France would offer greater protection to British citizens, whilst any extradition should also be reciprocal, and if one side doesn't extradite then the other shouldn't, as the days when US refusing to extradite terrorists to Britain were shameful, yet they expected terrorists to be sent the other way after 9/11.
If the US want to close there bases, so be it, however it might be tome for the UK to make that decision for the US, and to review our relationship, which is anything but special and is a rather pathetic one way street.
Last edited by Brave New World; 06-03-2022 at 04:18 AM..
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