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My sister works for the NHS and has to travel a bit she is always a bit 'put out' when people call her a 'Cockney', something I get sometimes when I meet 'northerners' (we're actually originally from Kent) but she is even more 'put out' when people tell her she has the 'estuary accent'!
As you already know I'm sure only those born within sound of the Bow Bells can call themselves true Cockneys but anyone with a London accent or even a south of England accent is often called a Cockney by outsiders who should know better
Never heard of an "estuary accent" before, Maybe Professor Higgins originally identified that one
I'm not sure where you've been, lager is generally thought of as pish by many 'beer snobs' in the UK, its full of chemicals and can sometimes be like drinking a soda, there are some decent lagers but a decent real ale is a cut above. Personally I quite like a pint of Old Speckled Hen which they describe as 'malty taste with a smooth raisin finish' :-D, I do like the odd IPA, I also quite like a 'Blue Moon' which is (I believe) an American version of a Belgian wheat beer? If I am out and about and am offered a Carlsberg then I will drink it, lager can be refreshing on a hot Summers day though on such a day I will usually go for a cider. Cider and beer gardens go together so nicely!
Back in the day a stout and mild was pretty popular where I grew up. Some preferred stout and bitter and a drinking friend used to say that it reminded him of his mother-in-law
Back in the day a stout and mild was pretty popular where I grew up. Some preferred stout and bitter and a drinking friend used to say that it reminded him of his mother-in-law
I remember when 'light & bitter' was a bit more of a 'thing' than it is now.
As you already know I'm sure only those born within sound of the Bow Bells can call themselves true Cockneys but anyone with a London accent or even a south of England accent is often called a Cockney by outsiders who should know better
Never heard of an "estuary accent" before, Maybe Professor Higgins originally identified that one
I've been told that "estuary" refers to East Enders leaving the city and moving to areas near to where the Thames becomes tidal, estuary, taking the accent with them. They're obviously not still within the sound of Bow Bells so "estuary" was coined since the movement has mostly been to the east. In particular Essex seems to be a county people moved to.
I was told by an English friend who's familiar with the US that Essex is the UK equivalent of New Jersey. And gave similarities. He was hilarious. And accurate, at least as far as New Jersey goes. Don't know about Essex.
I've been told that "estuary" refers to East Enders leaving the city and moving to areas near to where the Thames becomes tidal, estuary, taking the accent with them. They're obviously not still within the sound of Bow Bells so "estuary" was coined since the movement has mostly been to the east. In particular Essex seems to be a county people moved to.
I was told by an English friend who's familiar with the US that Essex is the UK equivalent of New Jersey. And gave similarities. He was hilarious. And accurate, at least as far as New Jersey goes. Don't know about Essex.
People in Essex and Kent 'share' some similarities with East End accents because they are geographically very close, in fact Parts of East London are actually in Kent or Essex, Cockneys are more associated with areas north of the river, Essex is north of the Estuary, Kent is south of the Estuary. As a man born and bred in a part of Kent very close to SE London I imagine that when it comes to my accent I share a lot with SE Londoners. When it comes to Kent (and I believe Essex) the accent changes the further away from London and the nearer the coastlines you get, people have a slightly different accent in East Kent than they do in West Kent, East Kent has a slight country drawl to it. Of course these differences are only 'slight' and would probably not even be noticeable by anybody not local.
People in Essex and Kent 'share' some similarities with East End accents because they are geographically very close, in fact Parts of East London are actually in Kent or Essex, Cockneys are more associated with areas north of the river, Essex is north of the Estuary, Kent is south of the Estuary. As a man born and bred in a part of Kent very close to SE London I imagine that when it comes to my accent I share a lot with SE Londoners. When it comes to Kent (and I believe Essex) the accent changes the further away from London and the nearer the coastlines you get, people have a slightly different accent in East Kent than they do in West Kent, East Kent has a slight country drawl to it. Of course these differences are only 'slight' and would probably not even be noticeable by anybody not local.
We did a road trip of the southeast a few years ago, starting at Marlborough, Winchester, Brighton, Dover (and castle), Ramsgate, Canterbury.
Second time in that area, it has a vibe that reminds me of Maryland and Virginia around the DC metro. Busy busy people, busy busy traffic, very important seat of power kind of vibe that just isn't felt elsewhere.
Driving the M25 around to the west side was delightful for those who like speedway traffic conditions. The lorries! Services stops helped calm us down for the next leg.
Incidentally a branch of my family (Bailey/Baillie) came from Kent to Charleston SC. But of course that was three hundred years ago.
I've been told that "estuary" refers to East Enders leaving the city and moving to areas near to where the Thames becomes tidal, estuary, taking the accent with them. They're obviously not still within the sound of Bow Bells so "estuary" was coined since the movement has mostly been to the east. In particular Essex seems to be a county people moved to.
I was told by an English friend who's familiar with the US that Essex is the UK equivalent of New Jersey. And gave similarities. He was hilarious. And accurate, at least as far as New Jersey goes. Don't know about Essex.
After World War 2 many Londoners moved to the two new towns of Basildon and Harlow in Essex. They were two of around half a dozen new towns the Labour Government built to provide new modern housing for those Londoners who had been bombed out during the Blitz or were living in sub-standard housing.
Crawley in Sussex was another new town and most of those who moved there were from London and brought the accent with them while outside in the small towns and villages the Sussex accent, very much different from London continued to thrive.
I hope these regional accents will continue to survive. They're part of British history and when I'm in one of the fine cities of Britain or in rural areas I enjoy hearing them.
"Tha's bin a courtin' Mary Jane on Ilckley moor ba' taat" Yorkshire's national song
Don't know much about New Jersey. We passed through it on our way to New York and the tour guide pointed out the street in Hoboken where Frank Sinatra was born. It's also one of the richest States in the U,S I heard
Last edited by James Austen; 12-30-2022 at 03:07 PM..
Don't know much about New Jersey. We passed through it on our way to New York and the tour guide pointed out the street in Hoboken where Frank Sinatra was born. It's also one of the richest States in the U,S I heard
Very socioeconomically segregated. Blue chip suburbs in metro NYC. A bunch of high poverty rate failed cities. Camden, across the river from Philadelphia, is probably the worst. A huge stretch of sandy beach. Rural inland which is why it’s the Garden State. Same story as much of the US. A nice place to live if you have money.
I don’t think it’s valid to compare anywhere in the UK with specific areas of the US.
Very socioeconomically segregated. Blue chip suburbs in metro NYC. A bunch of high poverty rate failed cities. Camden, across the river from Philadelphia, is probably the worst. A huge stretch of sandy beach. Rural inland which is why it’s the Garden State. Same story as much of the US. A nice place to live if you have money.
I don’t think it’s valid to compare anywhere in the UK with specific areas of the US.
I think he was joking, he was very funny about stereotyping both places.
After World War 2 many Londoners moved to the two new towns of Basildon and Harlow in Essex. They were two of around half a dozen new towns the Labour Government built to provide new modern housing for those Londoners who had been bombed out during the Blitz or were living in sub-standard housing.
Crawley in Sussex was another new town and most of those who moved there were from London and brought the accent with them while outside in the small towns and villages the Sussex accent, very much different from London continued to thrive.
I hope these regional accents will continue to survive. They're part of British history and when I'm in one of the fine cities of Britain or in rural areas I enjoy hearing them.
"Tha's bin a courtin' Mary Jane on Ilckley moor ba' taat" Yorkshire's national song
Don't know much about New Jersey. We passed through it on our way to New York and the tour guide pointed out the street in Hoboken where Frank Sinatra was born. It's also one of the richest States in the U,S I heard
I feel the same way about US regional accents, they reflect where we came from all over the world. Sadly regional accents in the US are homogenizing due to national media/entertainment.
The area where I live in my state is home to the Tidewater accent, based on the old accents of southern England around London. It's a beautiful accent that has been noted on both sides of the Atlantic
The generation before me (WWII) still spoke with it but my generation does not unfortunately, we speak Standard American more or less. It would be a shame to lose the old Tidewater accent.
Re NJ: it's a bit of a joke state bc of perceived vulgarity, too much money and too little sense, tv shows along the lines of "Jersey Shore" etc.
The state is gorgeous in the interior and west toward the Delaware River.
We went to an Italian wedding in the area of Cinton NJ, one of the other guests told me the area had a lot of Tony Soprano types. There certainly were quite a few "types" at the wedding.
Fun wedding though.
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Don't know about Essex.
