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Old 04-25-2014, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
It's all about socio-economic status of the STUDENT and not about the school. This is why greatschools rankings really just measure income and usually a lack of diversity more than anything else. If you look at test scores for the non-low income elementary school students in my urban neighborhood, they actually outperform the top suburbs in several grades. Now look at the school as a whole, including the low income half of the school, and it looks below average.
Pennsylvania doesn't track non-low income standardized testing scores, but it does track scores by race. I've found basically the same thing. Looking at only white students in the public school system (in most schools there are almost no Latino or Asian kids), the magnet schools and the neighborhood schools in the wealthiest part of town score as well or better than the top suburban school districts. In the working/lower-middle class white neighborhood schools, scores aren't as high, but they're similar to many first-ring suburbs in the region, and class differences between the "gentrified" and "non-gentrified" population are almost certainly the reason.

Not to say this isn't incredibly depressing for the nation as a whole. Still, I think it would be healthier as a society to shift gears away from thinking we can change educational outcomes for everyone through the education system, to one which ensured that even those who don't excel in school can get a decent-paying job when they graduate.

But if you're the typical young "urbanist" - someone an upper-middle class white who often has a graduate degree - there's statistically speaking very little chance your kids will do substantively worse than you as long as you have them with someone of a similar background. Urban or suburban, public or private, magnet or neighborhood, it just doesn't matter. Which makes instinctive sense, when you think about how many Baby Boomers went to overcrowded schools in cities or first-ring suburbs, and yet went on to excel in life regardless.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:09 PM
 
93,239 posts, read 123,842,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
It's all about socio-economic status of the STUDENT and not about the school. This is why greatschools rankings really just measure income and usually a lack of diversity more than anything else. If you look at test scores for the non-low income elementary school students in my urban neighborhood, they actually outperform the top suburbs in several grades. Now look at the school as a whole, including the low income half of the school, and it looks below average.
Actually, all GreatSchools does is give a number based on test scores in relation to the state overall result for that test. 5 is actually dead average. So, if a school is a 5, it just means that it is at the state average for test scores. It doesn't factor in graduation rates or requirements, among other factors. I've seen schools with a 4 for test scores, but have a 4 year grad rate in the low 90's for a percentage.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:24 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,458,335 times
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Actually, all GreatSchools does is give a number based on test scores in relation to the state overall result for that test. 5 is actually dead average. So, if a school is a 5, it just means that it is at the state average for test scores. It doesn't factor in graduation rates or requirements, among other factors. I've seen schools with a 4 for test scores, but have a 4 year grad rate in the low 90's for a percentage.
Hmm. I didn't know that. I assumed 5 = mediocre.
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:57 PM
 
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Compare these MCAS scores to the greatschools ratings and you will see what I mean. Once you control for income, the schools with a 5 can get higher MCAS than schools with a 9 or 10.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1O...it?usp=sharing
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,711,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
Compare these MCAS scores to the greatschools ratings and you will see what I mean. Once you control for income, the schools with a 5 can get higher MCAS than schools with a 9 or 10.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1O...it?usp=sharing
You can juggle statistics any way you want. I don't put a lot of stock in greatschools myself, but there is pretty much a straight line correlation with SES and test scores. I'm proud to say that MY high school is an outlier, and scores "better than expected".
Big Beaver Falls Area School District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:28 PM
 
93,239 posts, read 123,842,121 times
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Hmm. I didn't know that. I assumed 5 = mediocre.
I guess you can actually say that. Here is their ranking system: The GreatSchools Rating | GreatSchools

It essentially tells you the system in the second paragraph.

Here is a high school I had in mind when I wrote that previous post: Eastridge Senior High School - Rochester, New York - NY - School overview
Eastridge Senior High School - Rochester, New York - NY - School overview

Here is its graduation rate from the state department of education(click on the accountability report for the HS and look at page 13): https://reportcards.nysed.gov/school...4083&year=2012
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