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Gosh, why is it so difficult for some people to understand that some people just don't want a car. Cars are fine by me for those that want them. I would never say they are evil and no one should have them but they were never something I wanted to deal with. I tried driving and hated it as I mentioned before.
Having made that decsion in my twenties, I always made certain I lived in places where I didn't need one. That was from Chicago where I was born when I moved to Portland OR at age 34. I always made sure I lived in neighborhoods with good public transportation and could walk to where I needed to walk.
The reason why I am repeating this is to make the point that having or not having a car, like many things in life is a choice. Or it should be. I don't get the argument some are making here that a person has to have one. Or for that matter shouldn't have to have one.
I see more people being upset about people not having or wanting to have them though. Why is that? I have lived peacefully and just fine without one. But I have never preached that everyone should live with my choice. I don't object to the use of cars. I ride in them from time to time when I go somewhere with a friend who would rather drive than take a bus. Their choice.
But I don't get why people are getting upset that people like me don't want to own or depend upon a car solely to get around each and every time I need to get somewhere. I go lots of places and the bus gets me there just fine. That's the way I planned it.
Oh, and I don't know whether or not I could ever have afforded an "awesome" car because to be honest, although I think some cars are kind of pretty, I never saw one I would consider as "awesome." Now if we are talking about diamonds.....there's your "awsome."
From the link that you later deleted, I found some rather interesting details. Scroll down to 1960 Census of Population and Housing under Series PHC(1). Census Tracts each part gives you a detail breakdown of demographics by city, county and census tract (census tract is too much detail unless you have a specific detail). It's organized alphabetically by metro. Back then, the census asked more questions than it does today. It has a category for "of foreign stock" which is either foreign born or having at least one parent foreign born.
I took a look at the NY metro numbers (if you want to hear a different, I'll download those and report, but I'm going pick the one I'm most interested in first). For Nassau County, Long Island (adjacent to New York City), 40% of the white non-Puerto Rican (which was small for that county) population was of foreign stock. Levittown was a bit less, 33% (most common ethnicity Italian). The city itself was much higher, at 63%. Manhattan was even higher, the highest for the metro at 69%. Non-second generation immigrants (almost all from Europe) were a minority. City itself 78% white non-hispanic then.
The income contrast between city and suburb was smaller than today. Nassau County had a median income 54% higher than the city, today it's 86%. The poorest county in the metro (Manhattan) had a median income 1/2 of that of the wealthiest (Nassau) in 1960. I'd have to check other metros, but it seems like for all the mention of "suburbs are getting poorer, cities are gentrifying" I suspect the income gap between cities and suburbs is still much larger today everywhere than back in 1960.
Denver for 1960:
far fewer whites were immigrants or of immigrant parentage. Only 16% for metro, 20% for the city.
Thinking: For some parts of the country, a higher proportion city/metro residents came from rural American areas. Others (some big northern cities) most were descended from European immigrants that moved directly to the big city and few ancestors from "rural America".
We can afford an Audi or a second car, but there's really no need. We'd rather spend our money on other things like travel, eating out, entertainment, etc. Plus you pretty much have to factor in bodywork if you want to maintain a nice-looking car in a dense, heavy traffic city like the last two I have lived in.
Exactly. An often overlooked issue.
I've got a friend with a really nice car, who will NOT drive downtown.
What good is a car you can't use?
You are completely nitpicking something that's not even part of the logical argument here that's not even relevant..
It is and it isn't, but obviously why would you buy a car if you didn't need one?
I mean that is not much of an argument, either.
"I don't need one and lots of other people I know don't need one and/or aren't interested in them. And then I go on an exotic vacation I somehow bankroll with $3k (which will barely cover airfare these days)."
Well, that's great.
Whether or not I need a car will never play a part in whether or not I own one.
For a variety of reasons, but the biggest reason is I simply really love cars. Have since I was a tiny tot.
And I stand by my argument that you were addressing in your post that most people who diss cars will never have the opportunity or means to own a truly awesome one. If 60k is your benchmark of 'awesome,' so be it. Still pretty 'regular' car to me.
I don't care that you don't want a car or like cars or whatever. I pass no judgment on you for that. You obviously don't need a car. Great. You can do what you want without a car. That's fantastic. But why the heck does anyone care that some of us are the opposite? You never see any threads about car lovers ragging on people who don't own cars. This is like the 6th thread with this theme I have seen in just a couple of months.
It is and it isn't, but obviously why would you buy a car if you didn't need one?
I mean that is not much of an argument, either.
"I don't need one and lots of other people I know don't need one and/or aren't interested in them. And then I go on an exotic vacation I somehow bankroll with $3k (which will barely cover airfare these days)."
Well, that's great.
Whether or not I need a car will never play a part in whether or not I own one.
For a variety of reasons, but the biggest reason is I simply really love cars. Have since I was a tiny tot.
And I stand by my argument that you were addressing in your post that most people who diss cars will never have the opportunity or means to own a truly awesome one. If 60k is your benchmark of 'awesome,' so be it. Still pretty 'regular' car to me.
I don't care that you don't want a car or like cars or whatever. I pass no judgment on you for that. You obviously don't need a car. Great. You can do what you want without a car. That's fantastic. But why the heck does anyone care that some of us are the opposite? You never see any threads about car lovers ragging on people who don't own cars. This is like the 6th thread with this theme I have seen in just a couple of months.
This is going back and forth like a tennis match. Again I don't own a car. I have never wanted or needed one. I have never ragged on anyone one who wanted, needed or loved one. I have never had anyone rag on me for my choice but I have had people be amazed at me for it. Not so strange because that is quite usual for someone who doesn't go with the flow.
But I have to say that I must correct you a bit on this. A couple of people on some of these threads have been criticising non car owners for not owning them. As an example, someone responded to a post I made saying I was perfectly happy not ever having owned a car by telling me I would be begging for one if I lived in a colder climate which I had been for many years prior to where I live now. That was a part of a few other things he had mentioned in some very negative arguments about non-car ownership telling me I needed one.
I posted about how surprised I was at some people being so passionate about their arguments (you could call it "ragging") on others who didn't own cars. You are correct in saying there suddenly seem to be a lot of conversations about this subject lately. Many are about walkable cities or public transportation and owning a car seem to be included in these.
When I think about it though, I have had people say to me. "You don't drive, what's wrong with you?" Or "You really should learn?" Or "Why don't you try again?" because I once did try it.
I didn't consider it ragging though. I thought people were just trying to be helpful. But maybe I was wrong and they were ragging. Oh well.
I guess it's situation of some people thinking cars are an environmental issue but I think there is a lot more to it than that. Cars are here to stay. The solution is complex and just getting rid of cars is not going to put the genie back in the bottle.
It is and it isn't, but obviously why would you buy a car if you didn't need one?
I mean that is not much of an argument, either.
"I don't need one and lots of other people I know don't need one and/or aren't interested in them. And then I go on an exotic vacation I somehow bankroll with $3k (which will barely cover airfare these days)."
Well, that's great.
Whether or not I need a car will never play a part in whether or not I own one.
For a variety of reasons, but the biggest reason is I simply really love cars. Have since I was a tiny tot.
I love cars and I love driving too, but honestly it's unneeded for me and it's too much of a hassle in the current location I'm in. I know for most of the US, you do absolutely need a car no matter what your feelings about cars are.
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And I stand by my argument that you were addressing in your post that most people who diss cars will never have the opportunity or means to own a truly awesome one. If 60k is your benchmark of 'awesome,' so be it. Still pretty 'regular' car to me.
Disagreed. I have had the fortune enough to live in various areas of the US in both the "I need a car" and "I don't really need a car" environments. I will tell you from my experience there's nothing further from the fact than this, especially when the people live in apartments that cost $3000/month or higher and are out all the time and never have a shortage of money. In fact, the building next to me has some NFL players living in it (i.e. Jay Cutler). I hardly ever see any cars coming out of the parking garage part of the highrise. Barely anybody uses them here because there's no use, even if they own one.
I know plenty of people who don't own cars who love cars (like me) but decided not to own one for a handful of years. When everyone is within reach of you and you can walk everywhere, there's not much need for a car. The cost of owning one far outweighs the cost of not owning one at that point.
I can't tell you how many Lambos, Ferraris, etc in my neighborhood are ONLY seen in the summer and ONLY seen in the same exact 3 square block area. The only reason they take it out is to be seen in a few areas. The rest of the year, it's going to complete ****ing waste of any car. They can afford it obviously, but they barely even use them. They're sitting in their garages for 8 or 9 months of the year collecting dust.
You have to understand it's a choice and has nothing to do with financial situation.
Truthfully, how many people do you know from cities like New York City or Chicago who got rid of their cars on purpose? Honestly. And people not being able to afford the stuff? Do you even know how much money it costs for a simple places in the Upper East Side of Manhattan? You honestly want to tell me the people in the UES who don't own cars can't afford one? Give me a ****ing break.
Quote:
I don't care that you don't want a car or like cars or whatever. I pass no judgment on you for that. You obviously don't need a car. Great. You can do what you want without a car. That's fantastic. But why the heck does anyone care that some of us are the opposite? You never see any threads about car lovers ragging on people who don't own cars. This is like the 6th thread with this theme I have seen in just a couple of months.
I could really care less whether you or anyone wants a car or not. It's a personal choice. Doesn't matter to me. The point is that so many people don't understand why someone who lives in Manhattan or various areas of Chicago doesn't want a car. I can't tell you how many people I'm friends with, when I moved to downtown Chicago and made the decision to get rid of my car, were dumbfounded and couldn't possibly understand how one could function without a car.
In the end, I really don't give a flying **** who owns a car and who doesn't, but I'm saying it's about understanding people who decide to not do it. And your statement about people who choose not to own a car have just never driven a truly awesome car is complete ****ing bull**** hogwash. It's a lifestyle choice while realizing that in certain areas, no matter what car you own, it's going to go to waste. Really, go live in Manhattan and take a Lambo with you and tell me it's not going to waste. Even if you can take it out everyday around, you're going to stab your eyeballs out with the complete **** traffic.
Last edited by marothisu; 02-03-2013 at 03:29 PM..
The people I know who live in Manhattan (or that sort of situation/ultra-urban environment) who can afford awesome cars don't keep them there.
Just like they don't keep their yachts there.
If I lived in a big city like that, I wouldn't either (the car, I don't play in the yacht league).
The NFL players probably use limos, etc, like they even do here in Dallas...because of the consequences of DUIs and because it's more convenient, they can take their posse, it's flashy, etc.
The people I know who live in Manhattan (or that sort of situation/ultra-urban environment) who can afford awesome cars don't keep them there.
Just like they don't keep their yachts there.
If I lived in a big city like that, I wouldn't either (the car, I don't play in the yacht league).
The NFL players probably use limos, etc, like they even do here in Dallas...because of the consequences of DUIs and because it's more convenient, they can take their posse, it's flashy, etc.
They keep them elsewhere because the parking spaces in Manhattan are very expensive. Don't forget the guy who paid $1 million for a parking spot there.
They probably do use them sometimes, but in my neighborhood? I see them walking around all the time. When you have things right down the street, you can just walk to it.
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