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If not having a vehicle is as great as you make it sound, why do so many people ask me to use my pickup truck to help them move?
Are you saying everyone should own a truck, so that they don't have to borrow yours, when they move? Based on my own observations, it's not just the car-free who want to borrow trucks when they move, but just about everyone who doesn't own a truck.
I don't see how having a car is restrictive if it can take you where you want when you want in your own privacy without having to wait or pay for a bus and be around a bunch of strangers. You also don't have to walk everywhere either and worry about getting caught in the rain or heat or worry about carrying groceries around.
I don't see how having a car is restrictive if it can take you where you want when you want in your own privacy without having to wait or pay for a bus and be around a bunch of strangers. You also don't have to walk everywhere either and worry about getting caught in the rain or heat or worry about carrying groceries around.
Those are all positives. The question isn't "Does a car have benefits?" Of course it does. It's not worth asking.
The question, instead, is "Does a car, on net, represent a gain (freedom) or loss (restriction)?"
So, while it protects you from rain and carries your groceries, you have to also pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, and the car itself. You also have to deal with parking, having a space at home or finding one at your destination, and congested traffic.
So, while it protects you from rain and carries your groceries, you have to also pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, and the car itself. You also have to deal with parking, having a space at home or finding one at your destination, and congested traffic.
This question is subjective and can be answered only on an individual basis. If someone thinks a car restricts their freedom it's stupid for me to tell them it doesn't and vice versa.
One interesting thing about this forum is people seeking objective answers for subjective questions. And seeking to make they way they live a model for others. I think this forum is about taste more than anything else, often with taste posing as virtue.
... I drive just over 35 miles one way to work and it's been at least three years since I had a commute that was less than that. ...
We used to live in an apartment directly behind my wife's place of work. She would walk to work unless the weather was really bad. She enjoyed being that close to work. But that's the only time that either of us have had a commute that was walkable.
I grew up in a rural area so for me an automobile meant freedom. Without an automobile I wouldn't have been able to go see friends, get to work, go shopping or do anything like that. There really aren't too many places in America that you can live without a car - without it being a major inconvenience.
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Originally Posted by JR_C
Are you saying everyone should own a truck, so that they don't have to borrow yours, when they move? Based on my own observations, it's not just the car-free who want to borrow trucks when they move, but just about everyone who doesn't own a truck.
Well if someone is very anti-automobile and then asks to borrow one when they need one that is hypocritical.
It's more than simply not owning a car. It's also being an anti car zealot that car owners find annoying.
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Originally Posted by darkeconomist
Those are all positives. The question isn't "Does a car have benefits?" Of course it does. It's not worth asking.
The question, instead, is "Does a car, on net, represent a gain (freedom) or loss (restriction)?"
So, while it protects you from rain and carries your groceries, you have to also pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, and the car itself. You also have to deal with parking, having a space at home or finding one at your destination, and congested traffic.
But for most of the country that has zero public transit, the choices are 1)owning an automobile, 2) borrowing a friends car 3)walking or 4) biking. And since most places aren't designed for walking or biking using an automobile is the best option.
I agree that you have to look at the net freedom or loss but I think that only comes into play in larger cities. Otherwise a car will almost always be the best option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29
One interesting thing about this forum is people seeking objective answers for subjective questions. And seeking to make they way they live a model for others. I think this forum is about taste more than anything else, often with taste posing as virtue.
Yup.
Last edited by EVAunit1981; 06-13-2013 at 01:25 PM..
Are you saying everyone should own a truck, so that they don't have to borrow yours, when they move? Based on my own observations, it's not just the car-free who want to borrow trucks when they move, but just about everyone who doesn't own a truck.
We generally rent a truck when we need one. Home Depot has some reasonable rates for short jobs.
This question is subjective and can be answered only on an individual basis. If someone thinks a car restricts their freedom it's stupid for me to tell them it doesn't and vice versa.
One interesting thing about this forum is people seeking objective answers for subjective questions. And seeking to make they way they live a model for others. I think this forum is about taste more than anything else, often with taste posing as virtue.
True, I prefer objectivity where possible. I was, in this case, simply responding to a post that gave only the positives as if there were only positives.
True, I prefer objectivity where possible. I was, in this case, simply responding to a post that gave only the positives as if there were only positives.
Oh, it wasn't my intention to argue against your post, I responded as I did because it stimulated me to post my own notions.
Are you saying everyone should own a truck, so that they don't have to borrow yours, when they move? Based on my own observations, it's not just the car-free who want to borrow trucks when they move, but just about everyone who doesn't own a truck.
My point was that I'd like to see anyone in the anti-automobile camp move without one. Whining and complaining about those who do own vehicles is quite hypocritical seeing how they are 100% essential for modern existence. You may not personally require one for your day-to-day living in the city, but you have to consider that virtually every product you purchase while living in the city wouldn't be there if it didn't arrive by truck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist
So, while it protects you from rain and carries your groceries, you have to also pay for gas, insurance, maintenance, and the car itself. You also have to deal with parking, having a space at home or finding one at your destination, and congested traffic.
I use public transit to get to work in the city every day. Luckily, my job has hours that enable me to commute before and after rush hour. If I had to sit on a crowded train, squashed in like a sardine and having to put up with the general ignorance displayed by a great many of the general public, I'd drive. My truck is paid for and insurance isn't that big of a cost for me (40+, good driving record, no tickets - YMMV). If parking was free, the difference in the cost to take the train vs. the cost of gas to drive a V8 F150 downtown would be negligible (within 1 or 2 dollars a day), and I wouldn't have to put up with idiots using speakerphone when making cell calls, listening to crappy music sans headphones, eating smelly food, openly drinking and acting like hooligans, people who let their small children scream loudly and run amok on the cars, etc. etc. etc., not to mention I'd have the freedom to leave whenever I wanted and not when the train schedule tells me. IMO, these are the key reasons people that own small cars refuse to get off the highways and take public transit - it simply isn't cost effective or convenient for them.
My point was that I'd like to see anyone in the anti-automobile camp move without one. Whining and complaining about those who do own vehicles is quite hypocritical seeing how they are 100% essential for modern existence. You may not personally require one for your day-to-day living in the city, but you have to consider that virtually every product you purchase while living in the city wouldn't be there if it didn't arrive by truck.
I agree with that. I personally think anti-car sentiment is pretty stupid, but there is quite a convincing case against car dependency. Having multiple viable modes of transportation at your disposal has numerous benefits, both for individual residents and for the city as a whole. Being dependent on any one form of transportation has numerous drawbacks, and the anti-car sentiment basically seeks to remove a mode of transportation that is very useful for a variety of purposes. To me removing cars from cities would be as dumb as removing bus service or subway lines. With world population and GDP growing relentlessly, large quantities of all transportation modes will be needed in the future.
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If I had to sit on a crowded train, squashed in like a sardine and having to put up with the general ignorance displayed by a great many of the general public, I'd drive.
Conversely, if you could sit in a clean train with quiet people and nice seats, the choice wouldn't be as stark.
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[...] not to mention I'd have the freedom to leave whenever I wanted and not when the train schedule tells me. IMO, these are the key reasons people that own small cars refuse to get off the highways and take public transit - it simply isn't cost effective or convenient for them.
That is one of the major advantages of owning a car.
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