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The issue is time. I was already fit before I started commuting. I realized in the hour I waste commuting per day, I could get my cardio workout in. It also saves money in the process. Why am I paying for gas, maintenance, and parking when I live <10 miles from work? Time and energy efficiency.
I was fit before I started commuting and continue to be fit while I commute to work. Why? Because I schedule time in my day to go jogging/lift weights/bicycle. I have the mindset of a person who wants to stay in shape. I don't want to ride to work because it's too hot in the morning and afternoon during the summer. So I either get up around 5am and go jogging for an hour, or I go to the gym on my way home from work. Even though I live less than 5 miles from work, I enjoy having my car, and it would be a pain to live without it. I have everything I need in walking distance from where I live, so I rarely have to fill up my gas tank more than once a month. When I need to take a trip that requires a car (which happens most weekends), I find that it's much less stressful to own a car that's available when I want it rather than hunt down an expensive rental car service for a weekend.
Actually, as a cyclist, I would support a small tax on bicycles and their tires. The revenue could be used to capture more taxpayer ( and borrowed) funds to build bikeways. One element missing from the discussion is roadway spending is inadequate. If we doubled the motor fuel tax (though I prefer a mileage tax) and a like amount were added from general revenues, we would have a good hiway system. Motorists would even save money in the long run: fewer shock absorbers, repair bills and accident damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
I'd sign on for that too, only if bicycle infrastructure was taken seriously. Damage done to a road by a bike is practically zero, but I'm all about funding safety improvements and bike-specific infrastructure.
I staunchly disagree for a few reasons:
1) Bikes don't cause road damage. Cars barely cause road damage. Road damage is weather and heavy trucks.
3) Double-taxation. Most cyclists already own motor vehicles and pay annual registration frees. Furthermore, road funding is augmented by property, sales, and income taxes.
There is literally no reason for cyclists to pay a "free" other to make angry car drivers feel better about themselves.
I was fit before I started commuting and continue to be fit while I commute to work. Why? Because I schedule time in my day to go jogging/lift weights/bicycle. I have the mindset of a person who wants to stay in shape. I don't want to ride to work because it's too hot in the morning and afternoon during the summer.
That is your choice. I was very clear with my explanation. Rather than wasting an hour of my day sitting in a car, I prefer to get my cardio workout in so I can do other things. Is there something wrong with that statement?
Unless you live in Death Valley, California, I doubt it is too hot to ride a bike to and from work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orlando-calrissian
So I either get up around 5am and go jogging for an hour, or I go to the gym on my way home from work. Even though I live less than 5 miles from work, I enjoy having my car, and it would be a pain to live without it. I have everything I need in walking distance from where I live, so I rarely have to fill up my gas tank more than once a month. When I need to take a trip that requires a car (which happens most weekends), I find that it's much less stressful to own a car that's available when I want it rather than hunt down an expensive rental car service for a weekend.
This is a strawman argument. I own a car. Never did I suggest people should ditch cars altogether. My point was people who drive such short distances to work like yourself are essentially wasting a lot of time, energy, and money. Cars don't do well on short trips, especially in winter climates such as mine. It takes a lot of energy to warm up the vehicle to peak operating efficiency. Short trips usually indicate a lot of stop and go driving, which is harder on brakes, tires, and other components.
People do what they want.. but I can ride my bike in the city 5 miles just as fast as a car. My door to door distance is 7.5 miles. It takes me 25 minutes in my car and just 30 minutes on my bike, without accounting for parking.
3) Double-taxation. Most cyclists already own motor vehicles and pay annual registration frees. Furthermore, road funding is augmented by property, sales, and income taxes.
There is literally no reason for cyclists to pay a "free" other to make angry car drivers feel better about themselves.
As I mentioned, no damage is done by bicycles, but I'd want real infrastructure investment. Protected bike lanes, green ways, etc. It may not be majorly expensive, but I'm willing to pay taxes or fees to directly fund it.
Transportation infrastructure is not a "utility". In any event, tere already is a "road user charge" for those that pay fuel taxes for fuel to drive on roads. As another poster pointed out something like 90% of households own cars and to the extent their property, income, and sales taxes are spent on roads the roads are being paid for by "users".
So are you also going to require cyclists and road-using public transit to pay as well?
How about school buses and all local government vehicles like city garbage trucks, etc.?
Will you somehow allocate this fee between city roads, county roads, state roads, and federal highways when collected - or do you intend for it to go into a slush fund to be allocated purely based upon political processes (i.e., no correlation to use or wear and not spent on roads)
Perhaps the problem is that users are already paying for roads and they are understandably resistant to paying more.
Sorry, but no. So many roads across the country are in a state of disrepair and there needs to be a dedicated taxing mechanism that is better than the gas tax. Gas tax revenues are dwindling as vehicles become more fuel-efficient and Vehicle Miles Traveled decreases. It will not cut it in 20, maybe even 10, years. In some places it's not cutting it now.
And roads are a utility in the sense that they provide a critical public service. They aren't cheap to build and maintain. It's ridiculous to compare a bicycle with a vehicles weighing thousands of pounds in terms of damage to the road. Bicyclists do a tiny fraction of the damage to a road (if any at all) compared to a car or truck. It makes perfect sense for those who use roads more to pay more. The gas tax is not equitable in that poor people are likely to have less fuel efficient vehicles and pay more than their share. And it's not enough providing enough revenue.
The fact is roads need to be built and maintained - who should pay for them if not the drivers using them? It is the same as electricity or water in the sense that it is a critical public good, and like those utilities it should be paid for by usage.
The fact is roads need to be built and maintained - who should pay for them if not the drivers using them? It is the same as electricity or water in the sense that it is a critical public good, and like those utilities it should be paid for by usage.
How about the cyclists that use them pitching in? And the bus riders. And, and, and. Even pedestrians use the roadways.
How about the cyclists that use them pitching in? And the bus riders. And, and, and. Even pedestrians use the roadways.
Come on, Katiana. That's a terrible talking point. Cyclists cause next to no damage to roads built for cars. Pedestrians, even less than that.
Bus users, sure, that should be wrapped up in the price of the trip. But, to do that fairly means stripping away layers and layers of subsidy from private and public transit until they stand as equals. And that is a huge conversation unto itself, one that we've gone back and forth on for a long time without conclusion.
Come on, Katiana. That's a terrible talking point. Cyclists cause next to no damage to roads built for cars. Pedestrians, even less than that.
Bus users, sure, that should be wrapped up in the price of the trip. But, to do that fairly means stripping away layers and layers of subsidy from private and public transit until they stand as equals. And that is a huge conversation unto itself, one that we've gone back and forth on for a long time without conclusion.
Where are the cyclists going to cycle if there are no roads? Where are pedestrians going to walk, and get from place to place, if there are no roads? Dirt paths for both?
Where are the cyclists going to cycle if there are no roads? Where are pedestrians going to walk, and get from place to place, if there are no roads? Dirt paths for both?
There's no need to spend any money on highways, multilane roads, curves that can handle high speed traffic for bicycles. Most of the expensive parts of road construction are either useless or harmful for bicycles. Pedestrians could be on dirt paths.
There's no need to spend any money on highways, multilane roads, curves that can handle high speed traffic for bicycles. Most of the expensive parts of road construction are either useless or harmful for bicycles. Pedestrians could be on dirt paths.
Yeah, like we all want to walk to work, or to the movies, or the bar, or wherever, in the dirt.
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Time and energy efficiency.
