Suburban truisms

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by nei

Older New England neighborhoods outside of small towns usually don't have small setbacks unless you mean zero lot setbacks.

I meant rural/semi rural areas, not established rural towns. Basically the areas where there were isolated farmhouses which slowly sold off their land through the 20th century for new development. The remaining very old houses do not stick out too much. In contrast, houses like this in formerly rural Southeastern Pennsylvania will always stick out like sore thumbs.

Originally Posted by nei

I think it might just be the lot design; because Pittsburgh densities are lower than New England ones. Mid-Atlantic ones east of the Appalachians are higher. Many Queens neighborhoods which have high residential densities, at least as high or higher than the densest Pittsburgh neighborhoods have driveways:

I guess I see what you mean, since in Pittsburgh they tended to build houses so they were centered on the property line. If they built them offset, it would be possible to install driveways in more neighborhoods. of course since alley access is common in neighborhoods of this vintage it's not really required to have a front-facing driveway. Many people do dig out their (small) front yards and build a garage into the basement where alley access isn't possible.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

We've been through this before, Katiana. Your hometown was a mill town, not a suburb. It may have acquired some suburban commuters in later history, as the railroads (and later automobiles) allowed for a commute into Pittsburgh, but it was developed well before mass automobile use, or even the electric streetcar. Even though it was connected to the rail system which led into Pittsburgh, it was not a even a planned railroad suburb, like Sewickley. It was just a smaller urban area on the outskirts of a larger one.

This is all I have time to respond to off the top of my head. I'm not just talking about Beaver Falls, PA. I'm talking about your statement that neighborhoods built 1920-1950 (an English major would probably agree with me that by stating this you mean ALL such neighborhoods) had "nothing within walking distance". That is simply hooey. I grew up in such a neighborhood. There were a couple of little corner grocery stores, beauty shops, a convenience store, a pharmacy all that I can think of off the top of my head that were in walking distance plus the local elementary school, the firehouse which had a lot of community activities, and some parks. My spouse grew up in such a neighborhood in a large city. He actually lived just a few blocks from a large shopping area, and right down the street from a major park and a college. You have to look at more than just a street of houses.

As for Beaver Falls, it had/has more ties to Pittsburgh than you seem to be aware of, but I don't really have time to discuss this right now.

[nei]

Originally Posted by FallsAngel

As for Beaver Falls, it had/has more ties to Pittsburgh than you seem to be aware of, but I don't really have time to discuss this right now.

I don't think that's the distinction, since it was 30 miles away it would naturally have some ties. Long Island and the Hudson Valley always had some ties to New York City because it was close, but a lot of the area weren't really suburbs in 1920, the suburban development hadn't reached there; there were small towns that happened to be close to a big city. Otherwise there's often a big difference because towns that grew as a railroad suburb of the big city (a bedroom community though of course not everyone work in the city, usually more affluent) and a mill town (poorer, often higher density, less job connections, though there were economic ties). The former were often from a chain of development stretching from the city; the latter could be past that.

[Katarina Witt]

Frankly, it's an issue for the Pittsburgh forum, though I've put up with a few discussions on here about specific issues I thought should go to the appropriate city forum. I really don't think anyone from Pittsburgh cares, either.

I'll say a few words, though. No BF was not set up to be a bedroom suburb for Pittsburgh. Yes, there is enough interaction between the two that I think you can call it a suburb. Heck, my dad referred to it that way back when he was in the service in WW II.