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Yeah, but there weren't high powered stereo systems with subwoofers, video games, or cars with fartcan mufflers when great-great-grandma and grandpa lived there.
So you're saying that every store in America plays their "high powered stereo systems with subwoofers" all throughout the day and leave it playing past their closing time? And every store, including 7 Elevens and Pottery Barns, play video games? I know American cities are s**t, but you're telling me that it might even be a lot worse?
So you're saying that every store in America plays their "high powered stereo systems with subwoofers" all throughout the day and leave it playing past their closing time? And every store, including 7 Elevens and Pottery Barns, play video games? I know American cities are s**t, but you're telling me that it might even be a lot worse?
Is that what you derived from the statement you quoted? Why are you making assumptions, and INSERTING qualifiers into people's general statements?
Your quoted post remains truthful and accurate if any ONE such building meets such a description.
So you're saying that every store in America plays their "high powered stereo systems with subwoofers" all throughout the day and leave it playing past their closing time? And every store, including 7 Elevens and Pottery Barns, play video games? I know American cities are s**t, but you're telling me that it might even be a lot worse?
Oh come on. You understand very well my point that the current conventional wisdom of urban planning, based as it is on a rosy vision of the past, does NOT take noise pollution or light pollution into consideration. All that density is wonderful, right up till you can't get to sleep night after night.
Those dense cities of the past everyone is so enamored of these days, did not have electronics or automobiles. Fartcan mufflers; thumpy cars; car alarms; construction equipment with back-up beepers running all hours of the day and night; streetlights shining in your windows; upstairs neighbors that work the night shift and stay up all night playing loud video games; drunks weaving down the street yelling at 2 am when the bars close; police and fire sirens...
What is your proposal to deal with these?
Nope, I am going to do my best not to share walls with anyone ever again, until I finally have to move into the assisted living, and hopefully by then I'll be so deaf it won't matter.
Oh come on. You understand very well my point that the current conventional wisdom of urban planning, based as it is on a rosy vision of the past, does NOT take noise pollution or light pollution into consideration. All that density is wonderful, right up till you can't get to sleep night after night.
Those dense cities of the past everyone is so enamored of these days, did not have electronics or automobiles. Fartcan mufflers; thumpy cars; car alarms; construction equipment with back-up beepers running all hours of the day and night; streetlights shining in your windows; upstairs neighbors that work the night shift and stay up all night playing loud video games; drunks weaving down the street yelling at 2 am when the bars close; police and fire sirens...
What is your proposal to deal with these?
Nope, I am going to do my best not to share walls with anyone ever again, until I finally have to move into the assisted living, and hopefully by then I'll be so deaf it won't matter.
Building standards and insulation technology seem to have advanced to the level that hotels are built alongside airports and provide a good night's sleep to their customers. Perhaps such advances may someday come to urban environments. I also understand that certain companies are furiously working to close in on perfecting products that might actually block the incursion of light through windows.
Building standards and insulation technology seem to have advanced to the level that hotels are built alongside airports and provide a good night's sleep to their customers. Perhaps such advances may someday come to urban environments. I also understand that certain companies are furiously working to close in on perfecting products that might actually block the incursion of light through windows.
HA!
Window treatments are a little easier to add than replacing the window itself. We've got darkness down pat... now let's tackle the noise!
My grandparents installed Andersen windows when converting a screened-in porch to a sun room. A normal conversation is dead silent from the other side, and a dog barking is barely audible.
If urban planning was a real discipline, everyone would read "A Pattern Language," and understand certain fundamental principles of town/city design.
Lacking that basic education, any dummy could look to successful cities and see what makes them tick: Plazas, parks, walkability, transportation.
Manhattan is a great area because of all of the above.
Modern urban planners are simply bureaucratic idiots with no respect for artistry or creativity.
You do realize that urban planners don't just autocratically decide how everything looks and functions in a locality, correct?
They have to follow what the local community buys into, the local political climate and what elected officials are willing to support, what the state/feds allow them to do (the so-called property rights movements have wielded pretty strong power in some states), and the economic marketplace they operate in. For instance, the goal in one area may be to have golden benches on cobblestone sidewalks, but in another area, it may be a higher priority to eradicate urban blight and help coordinate resources for low income homeowners to repair/replace failing roofs.
And a location in rural Kansas might not want to feel like Manhattan (unless it's Manhattan, Kansas ), and who is one person to tell the entire community they know what's best for them? They certainly can and should educate people in the community about how a better design could serve them better, but ultimately they serve the community and facilitating what it desires, and not the other way around.
I agree with you that Pattern Language is a compelling book, and it would be great for more people to read it to gain some appreciation of desirable architectural and site design techniques.
LMAO. That "living over stores" has been going on for centuries, even for a few millennia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3
Yeah, but there weren't high powered stereo systems with subwoofers, video games, or cars with fartcan mufflers when great-great-grandma and grandpa lived there.
There were probably just as many young, alienated misanthropes in those days -- but we didn't allow them to establish their own "safe"(?) space -- which occasionally spews out into other peoples' peace and quiet.
I have my own term for these losers -- I refer to them as "audiots".
new ideas have to be temporary, if it wasn't we would have fiber optic internet instead of 5g (satellites don't last very long) ,we would have green energy instead of being connected to a real old power grid. when everything falls apart then every city will be a smart city, im not sure if anyone wants that besides elon musk because he makes driverless cars. the kids might like it.
If urban planning was a real discipline, everyone would read "A Pattern Language," and understand certain fundamental principles of town/city design.
Lacking that basic education, any dummy could look to successful cities and see what makes them tick: Plazas, parks, walkability, transportation.
Manhattan is a great area because of all of the above.
Modern urban planners are simply bureaucratic idiots with no respect for artistry or creativity.
Given the cost of housing in Manhattan, I would say it is an example of what not to do.
New York is unique. There are only a handful of cities like it. Singapore. Not sure who else. Nobody in Europe follows that model.
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), and who is one person to tell the entire community they know what's best for them? They certainly can and should educate people in the community about how a better design could serve them better, but ultimately they serve the community and facilitating what it desires, and not the other way around.
