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TurcoLoco, I've done research and visited both Vancouver and Spokane for a move. Actively trying to buy now. Shoot me a PM; I'm happy to share insights.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurcoLoco
Since the forum is seemingly slow, can I throw a curveball question to spice things up?
... I have done a bit of research on Spokane in the last year, too.
Knowing my situation, how do you guys feel it compares to Vancouver area?
Would it be a decent alternative or not? Pros and Cons?
I know Winters are colder in Spokane, probably due to drier air? Some say Winters are long but not sure what that means exactly? I am actually OK with cold Winters/snow if it means less rain/wet days throughout the year.
Not sure if the jobs pay same or worse than Vancouver area. House prices seemed a bit cheaper in Spokane, or am I wrong?
....
Liberty Lake (east of Spokane Valley) and Vancouver were my research choices (40 yrs ago). I got job offers the same day, and was much more keen on Spokane climate, terrain, proximity to ID, MT, BC, and AB + I was relocating from a very similar climate and terrain. (job ended up much better in Vancouver (which was evident during my choice), but... I would have been laid off far sooner if I had chosen Spokane +/-) I could have been 'retired' at age 35 rather than waiting to 49. That could have been a +, but.,.. I made a LOT more income from wages and investments by being in Vancouver WA area. I might have had to work dayshift in Spokane, that would have killed me (who wants to be stuck INSIDE during daylight ) Not this farm kid.
I have since moved 3 friends to Spokane area (recently) and one of my tenants is from Spokane and his extended family are in our home often for visits and 'weather retreat'.
It is not appreciable different climate, just colder colds, more snow (not a ton) and plenty of gray. If you have no need for sea coast or I-5 . Oregon / Seattle access, Spokane can be a good alternative, (Though I would do a rural town nearby, or look into Walla Wall for specific benefits (Smaller college town, no freeway thoroughfare.) I also really like Moscow, ID. Rockford, WA is one of my favorite nearby towns. Sandpoint is another great alternative (not far from Spokane.)
If you are into Mt outdoor sports (hunting) and lake fishing vs ocean, Spokane can work. One friend (north of Spokane) claims 20 fishing lakes within 20 miles and NO fishing pressure weekdays)
As with Portland, I feel Spokane was for more attractive 30 yrs ago, than it is today. I really dislike the traffic issues (no quick way N-S). Far more likely I would end up in ID if I was headed to Spokane. (I have no more income to benefit from the WA NO (?) income tax benefit(?)
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 03-08-2021 at 10:08 PM..
TurcoLoco, I've done research and visited both Vancouver and Spokane for a move. Actively trying to buy now. Shoot me a PM; I'm happy to share insights.
Hi, thank you. I wanted to keep all chatter on the thread so all could see/benefit/share in mind but I did send you a PM just in case there was something that you think might not have been appropriate for public viewing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit
Liberty Lake (east of Spokane Valley) and Vancouver were my research choices (40 yrs ago). I got job offers the same day, and was much more keen on Spokane climate, terrain, proximity to ID, MT, BC, and AB + I was relocating from a very similar climate and terrain. (job ended up much better in Vancouver (which was evident during my choice), but... I would have been laid off far sooner if I had chosen Spokane +/-) I could have been 'retired' at age 35 rather than waiting to 49. That could have been a +, but.,.. I made a LOT more income from wages and investments by being in Vancouver WA area. I might have had to work dayshift in Spokane, that would have killed me (who wants to be stuck INSIDE during daylight ) Not this farm kid.
I have since moved 3 friends to Spokane area (recently) and one of my tenants is from Spokane and his extended family are in our home often for visits and 'weather retreat'.
It is not appreciable different climate, just colder colds, more snow (not a ton) and plenty of gray. If you have no need for sea coast or I-5 . Oregon / Seattle access, Spokane can be a good alternative, (Though I would do a rural town nearby, or look into Walla Wall for specific benefits (Smaller college town, no freeway thoroughfare.) I also really like Moscow, ID. Rockford, WA is one of my favorite nearby towns. Sandpoint is another great alternative (not far from Spokane.)
If you are into Mt outdoor sports (hunting) and lake fishing vs ocean, Spokane can work. One friend (north of Spokane) claims 20 fishing lakes within 20 miles and NO fishing pressure weekdays)
As with Portland, I feel Spokane was for more attractive 30 yrs ago, than it is today. I really dislike the traffic issues (no quick way N-S). Far more likely I would end up in ID if I was headed to Spokane. (I have no more income to benefit from the WA NO (?) income tax benefit(?)
Well, I am 49, too and ma likely to work at least for another 15 years at least. Afterwards, would like to work on my own, do something with one of my hobbies to generate additional income.
Right now, I don't really have any requirements for any specific location or shift so yeah, I am quite flexible. If weekend jobs pay more, then I am cool with it too but I am not sure how many suitable IT jobs would actually be on weekends? Most companies I worked for have been Mon-Fri 8-5 but I have had jobs working slanted shifts too which I really liked because I am not a morning person and it helped dodge the SoCal traffic. I have commuted on motorcycle 95% of the time but during really cold/rainy days, I do prefer 4 wheels.
I think I'd actually be OK with any of the smaller WA towns you mentioned but not sure how the housing and job market would be there. Spokane seemed like a decent size city with many interesting areas but you might be right about things being better decades earlier. I feel the same way about most any places I lived in. Sad, ain't it? So much for "Things will get better!"
If it wasn't for the pandemic, I was thinking about visiting Spokane before Summer but based on your info and what I have seen on the weather related web sites. There is not much difference but Vancouver, mainly due to its close proximity to Portland might be a more logical choice for now.
I will keep doing my researching and watching seemingly unbiased videos on YouTube to gather more info.
I will definitely visit Vancouver before I relocate to check things out. Who knows, maybe I could squeeze in a few interviews too?
Okay, some impressions on Vancouver vs. Spokane, as requested. As background, I have visited both areas, and am actively looking at buying a house in whichever area I can first. I've made a few offers in the Vancouver area already, and was thoroughly outbid every time. (Can anyone help with that??)
Between the two areas, I prefer Vancouver by a slight margin. Spokane is quite livable, and certainly expanding, but I think you'll see my reasoning in the details below.
Real Estate: You're correct in that Spokane's a little cheaper on housing prices. It also has more housing inventory than Vancouver...for now at least. Vancouver's market is boiling hot, with lots of overpriced properties (some ridiculously so - and I've lived in Silicon Valley!). Spokane' properties move fast too. Just not as bad.
Climate: Vancouver felt a little wetter of the two areas. It also has more moderate weather year-round. Spokane has greater temperature extremes in hot and cold, though neither extreme gets truly "bad." Except for one thing - snow. Spokane gets colder than Vancouver, and will snow for longer. Now, if you like that, great! I'm just OK with it. Would prefer rain to snow.
Crime: Spokane does have higher crime levels than Vancouver. Plenty of statistics backing this up. It's due to drugs and homeless, as I understand. Given its size and location, it's not too surprising. You can minimize your risk by living in the "South Hill" area, or around its outskirts/suburbs.
Jobs: Others on the forum who have lived in these places can attest to the job market better than me. I have read on here and elsewhere that Vancouver's job market, while healthy, depends largely on Portland. Spokane's job market, again from what I've seen on this forum and others, isn't stellar, but shows signs of improvement over recent years.
Outdoors: Spokane has tons of things to do if you like Nature. Hiking, swimming, exploring, and so on. It's surrounded by lakes, forests, mountains, and wide open plains. The quiet alone is incredible. Vancouver has plenty of natural beauty too - lots of forest, parks, and the Columbia River.
Location/Amenities: This is one area where Vancouver just wins. It's between Portland and Seattle, which makes it easy to reach both inside of 2 hours. With Spokane, you can cross over into Idaho easily, but if you want to reach the Seattle metro? It's a 4-hour drive one way.
Finally, Vancouver has StealthRabbit and his immense wisdom!
Hope that helps. I'm sure I could add more from my (limited) experience if desired.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,705 posts, read 58,031,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeezulMaster
Okay, some impressions on Vancouver vs. Spokane, as requested. As background, I have visited both areas, and am actively looking at buying a house in whichever area I can first. I've made a few offers in the Vancouver area already, and was thoroughly outbid every time. (Can anyone help with that??)
Between the two areas, I prefer Vancouver by a slight margin. Spokane is quite livable, and certainly expanding, but I think you'll see my reasoning in the details below.
Real Estate: Spokane has some really nice older homes, and more of those urban centric....Vancouver's market is boiling hot, with lots of overpriced properties (some ridiculously so - and I've lived in Silicon Valley!). Short term pressure (largely due to influx from Portland, CA and WFH). Even Seattle long termer's are migrating to Vancouver at the moment. This will not last forever, but may last another 3-5 yrs.
Climate: Vancouver felt a little wetter ... It also has more moderate weather year-round. Spokane has greater temperature extremes in hot and cold, though neither extreme gets truly "bad." Except for one thing - snow. Spokane gets colder than Vancouver, and will snow for longer. Now, if you like that, great! I'm just OK with it. Would prefer rain to snow. Yes, Vancouver has rainforests nearby (My backyrad is classified as Pacific rain forest, with ferns being hosted by trees. Much more vegetation in Vancouver region (Mtns of Blackberries!) Great for gardening (green house and irrigation helps). Spokane was much more like my Colorado environment (Pine forest vs fir / hemlock / cedar). Wet, moldy, moss in Vancouver. Not in Spokane. (Hint: live in an open south facing spot if in Vancouver area)
Crime: Spokane does have higher crime levels than Vancouver. Plenty of statistics backing this up. It's due to drugs and homeless, ... Spokane has always had this issue, but you can avoid as mentioned, or small locale towns. Just the demographics, not a crime ridden area.
Jobs: Others on the forum who have lived in these places can attest to the job market better than me. I have read on here and elsewhere that Vancouver's job market, while healthy, depends largely on Portland. Spokane's job market, again from what I've seen on this forum and others, isn't stellar, but shows signs of improvement over recent years. Traditional employment in Spokane has disappeared (high Hourly positions). There is now a mix, but in transition. Likely will not attract a ton of IT companies (Too high of wages and limited workforce). Wenatchee / Ellensburg is a better option for IT career and east side WA living.
Outdoors: Spokane has tons of things to do if you like Nature. Hiking, swimming, exploring, and so on. It's surrounded by lakes, forests, mountains, and wide open plains. The quiet alone is incredible. Vancouver has plenty of natural beauty too - lots of forest, parks, and the Columbia River. Vancouver also has the Columbia River and coast access within an hour, so probably more yr round access / variety. If you are a hunter or avid lake / river fisherman, Spokane is a good choice
Location/Amenities: This is one area where Vancouver just wins. It's between Portland and Seattle, which makes it easy to reach both inside of 2 hours. With Spokane, you can cross over into Idaho easily, but if you want to reach the Seattle metro? It's a 4-hour drive one way.
....
No wisdom here, just a LOT of hard knocks, lost time and money chasing the dream. (while working 3 jobs + senior caregiving and being a single income family and leaving employment pre age 50 (worn out),) so... that gives a wide berth of painfully memorable experiences. Never been one to sit still and lament not ACTING on available quests.
thus,,, I've made a few offers in the Vancouver area already, and was thoroughly outbid every time. (Can anyone help with that??)
Change your strategy.
I would find a decent place to rent and ride this timeframe out and know when and where to pounce. (Which would not be a 'listed for sale' property for me. I don't have time for that (sought out missed purchases).
I'm not one to consider buying a personal home is a good 'investment', I have never found that to be true. My home is a liability, not an asset. I have to feed it (well) every day.
Investing the equivalent of a house down payment just in the last yr would have doubled your available funds. (Earlier exit from the J-O-B !!!, more time for recreation )
Spokane vs Vancouver.... if single... If not living international (most likely), I would be in Moscow / CDL or Sandpoint, ID (or Thompson Falls, MT), or WY or SD. I no longer need No Income Tax! I don't need the coast / beach. I prefer Mtns and snow to rain and mud. Each of us will be different. Living in NZ, AU, or South America for USA winters is a better option (long spring days, year round). Life is VERY SHORT, so burning daylight is a very bad situation for farmer types. (short days or rainy days, or working an indoor job or doing school during daylight).
I will enjoy visiting Vancouver, and Spokane, but don't plan to live in either. Similar with my CO and TX homes (and Thailand extended visits). Nice to visit, but not suitable for FT living (for me). Cabin fever... "Let me OUTTA here". Disclaimer... born to trucker parents, and been on the go for all my life. I'm NOT a home-body. Nice to visit, but tough and confining to get stuck there.
WA homes... HUGE windows are a must!!! 30% is a good rule of thumb for exterior walls to be windows. My spouse nixed my plans for an Earth sheltered home we designed for Colorado, the moment we set foot into WA.
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 03-10-2021 at 08:43 AM..
Stealth, I would love to buy you a good drink and talk sometime. If you haven't written books already, I would encourage you to do so. Hell, I'd be happy to help the effort.
I have a girlfriend, who's coming with me up north. We like mountains and forests and cool weather.
Thanks for the note on strategy. Our plan so far was to try to buy until June. If we haven't succeeded by then, we'll rent a place, move up, and resume the search from a local standpoint. I am ready to 'pounce' as you say.
Perhaps you could indulge us with direction on finding off-market properties?
Sorry to hear about the earthship! I love the concept myself, as well as earthbag construction. If I can get my hands on a good chunk of land, I'd love to build some nice earthbag homes.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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https://gis.clark.wa.gov/gishome/ has all the info you need (once you have determined a region) I use a specific formula to whittle down my likely wins. (Which I no longer publish after losing many deals to a competing realtor, king of slime-balls from way back)
I plan to build a rammed earth home, but not in Western WA!.
I do put daylight basements with southern exposure in all my W WA places.
I just closed on a very sweet deal I sold in West Columbia Gorge (under $300k). Acreage, small Home, shop, barns, orchard, gardens, many old growth trees (50+) 200+ ft tall. I often sell to my tenants at a greatly reduced price + owner finance. There were (4) nearby homes FS in my price range, but all have sold. I only have a few left in WWA, but always looking for something to do in my free time. And to play on my dozer, bobcat, excavator. It is pretty nice to buy a trashed place in winter, then spiff it and replant and make it irresistible to a buyer looking for their dream property. Takes a couple months, good return and I belong to several land reclamation / sustainable terrain / building groups for ideas and support of low impact housing options. (I don't do pavement ). I spend a lot out of my family foundation for environmental support. (and education / social dangers and barriers)
I would need to know more specifically what you want to keep an eye out for your spot, but... I will not be spending much time in WA until June / July. Couple days / month maybe...(if weather suits me)
You are right, Stealth, each person is different with different wants and needs. The location I am targeting may not be suitable a decade or so later or if I meet someone, our needs/priorities change.
That is why I am not dead set on anything but for now, I am strongly leaning towards Vancouver area.
Hopefully, my family "caring" obligation will no longer be needed in the next 5-6 months so I can relocate while the weather is suitable.
You guys feel free to keep chatting on this thread. I will quietly keep soaking all the info info.
I gotta admit, Weezul's attempts to discreetly butter up Stealth is a bit amusing, though!
I've learned that when you come across someone with more knowledge & experience, you learn all you can from them!
One thing that puzzles me nowadays, is that I feel less comfortable about Spokane than I do about Vancouver. I've spent time in both places. Met good people in both places. Seen nice houses and peaceful forests in both places.
Yet I find myself looking for reasons to buy in/move to the Vancouver area first. Even if I'm way outside the city itself - hell, we even considered buying in Longview/Kelso just to stay nearby.
I'm not sure why the appeal persists (especially with skyrocketing house prices). Perhaps someone can offer comment on the notion?
When my wife and I decided to move back to the Pacific Northwest after her career brought us to Texas for a decade we looked closely at: (1) Portland metro with special focus on Vancouver/Camas, (2) Spokane, (3) Wenatchee, and (4) Medford because those four locations had the most interesting professional options at the time. We also considered Bellingham, Olympia, Metro Seattle, and Eugene and took quick peeks at Boise and Salt Lake City.
We picked Vancouver/Camas for several reasons. First, it was the most promising location for the combination of both our careers (healthcare and education), it was closer to family in the Willamette Valley, we liked being on the edge of a larger metro with more cultural options, and we liked the location close to BOTH coast and mountains as well as major cities and airport. Spokane is much more of an interior continental city like Minneapolis. The coast is a long ways away.
We did like Spokane, especially the South Hill area with the old mansions and looked at the Mead area which has the highest rated schools. But in general, the Spokane area seemed to have a higher level of seediness and is kind of poorly laid out in terms of traffic. There is no real north-south arterials so it is a lot of surface street driving if you live out in say Mead. But the biggest strikes against Spokane were that it was too far away from family. Having our kids able to see their grandparents on evenings and weekends is something we could do in Camas but not Spokane. I also got the sense that education jobs are a lot tougher out there than was the case in suburban Vancouver. The area is growing slower and there are too many local universities pumping out too many young teachers so it is reported to be really hard for mid-career teachers to move in and find work. I got the sense that it is more of a parochial place professionally and not just in education.
If I was younger and single and looking to do some sort of urban revival thing then Spokane would be an interesting place. Lots of opportunity there and it is a lot cheaper than Metro Seattle or Portland. But cost wasn't our primary criteria. We've been happy with our choice and wouldn't change it.
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) Not this farm kid. 
)
