[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by j_jimerino

I'd prefer they just raised the income tax and did away with the school property tax entirely. I'm afraid to say that though, since they'd probably just do the first part and forget the last. That would get around some of the system cheats (can't really call them cheats actually, they're just playing the game better).

That would really be bad for school budgets. Lot's of people support the schools through property taxes, like me for instance. I don't pay any state income tax though.

In fact, if income tax was the only way to finance schools, the budgets would crumble.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

That would really be bad for school budgets. Lot's of people support the schools through property taxes, like me for instance. I don't pay any state income tax though.

In fact, if income tax was the only way to finance schools, the budgets would crumble.

Create less exemptions in the income tax and it would work. Taxing a person's home with the threat to throw them out is an abomination.

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Create less exemptions in the income tax and it would work. Taxing a person's home with the threat to throw them out is an abomination.

School taxes work for one main reason-not everyone has kids in the system. If only people with an income in state support the schools, there wouldn't be enough money to operate them.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

School taxes work for one main reason-not everyone has kids in the system. If only people with an income in state support the schools, there wouldn't be enough money to operate them.

There'd be more than enough. Of course taxing everyone regardless of income would suddenly bring about efficiency and careful budgeting in our education system. The problem is most of those who are voting for increased spending, against consolidation, etc., don't suffer the consequences. Just because someone owns property doesn't mean they can afford high taxes, and it's an abomination to throw people out of their homes, or threaten to, to pay for schools.

[Lilybeans]

As a society we've determined that public schools are a great benefit, and that each landowner has to pay a part of that.

There is no way that schools could exist on income taxes alone. Vermont is lucky in one respect- alot of vacation homes, which also pay property taxes and pay for schools and infrastructure, and don't use the schools. Without that money the schools would cease to exist. Plus, a lot of people don't pay income taxes anyway- what with all the credits and deductions. I'll bet if take the school budget from any district it would exceed the total income tax paid in that same district.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

As a society we've determined that public schools are a great benefit, and that each landowner has to pay a part of that.

There is no way that schools could exist on income taxes alone. Vermont is lucky in one respect- alot of vacation homes, which also pay property taxes and pay for schools and infrastructure, and don't use the schools. Without that money the schools would cease to exist. Plus, a lot of people don't pay income taxes anyway- what with all the credits and deductions. I'll bet if take the school budget from any district it would exceed the total income tax paid in that same district.

Homes should not be taxed. Period. Furthermore, our wasteful education system will continue to result in money being flushed down the toilet as long as most of those using it don't pay. I'd sooner abolish public education than continue property taxation. Our schools are not performing as they should anyways. Most students when I went to college and then when I taught high school, couldn't hardly read (or write for that matter). Most couldn't even do basic math without using a calculator.

As I said above, end the exceptions in the income tax when abolishing proeprty taxes: make even the welfare queens pay part of their benefits for their kids to go to school.

[GypsySoul22]

Schools need a complete overhaul, not just in VT but all over the country. We're failing the kids. Obviously the system is faulty and needs fixing.

[j_jimerino]

Originally Posted by Lilybeans

As a society we've determined that public schools are a great benefit, and that each landowner has to pay a part of that.

There is no way that schools could exist on income taxes alone. Vermont is lucky in one respect- alot of vacation homes, which also pay property taxes and pay for schools and infrastructure, and don't use the schools. Without that money the schools would cease to exist. Plus, a lot of people don't pay income taxes anyway- what with all the credits and deductions. I'll bet if take the school budget from any district it would exceed the total income tax paid in that same district.

You assert the system would collapse if based on income taxes. I assert it is mostly based on income taxes already. You say that some people don't pay income taxes. Some people don't pay property taxes either. (housing assistance, shelters, perhaps people living with others free depending on your definition of paying them) And aside from the few independently wealthy, the property tax is mostly paid for out of individual households income in the end regardless.

The property tax is also an income based tax, thanks to the income sensitivity provision. Surely you know this. The state has also routinely raided the general fund, which was filled using income taxes, various fees and fuel taxes, to make up for lack of funds in the education budget. So the budget already is not funded entirely by property taxes (whose rate is partially set by income) anyway.

The idea of using vacation home owners as a captive cash cow is not incompatible with changes to the school system funding. They already pay a different higher rate that lacks the income sensitivity. If you want to keep milking them you could just leave their property tax in place. I don't know what my feelings are on this, but its true that people with a ski condo likely are not going to end up out on the street because they couldn't pay the taxes on it.

The main advantage to a property tax over an income tax is its returns remain fairly stable during economic swings. Of course, if you input a bunch of income provisions that kind of defeats the purpose.

Anyway, I've sort of wandered from my original point. I don't honestly expect much change here anyway. My original point was: The income prebate phases out at 110K/yr or so. I think its safe to assume that most Vermont households do not earn over that threshold. Even in Vermont, that's a pretty comfortable household income, but in order to pass the idea politically of a property tax that was also an income tax the lawmakers likely had to extend it to income almost everyone. Most people probably don't look at that rebate like getting state assistance, but it sounds a lot like it if you think about it.

[VTgoneaway]

iirc 20% of VT filers make over 100k a year. Most of the 20% probably work in Boston/MetroNY and commute 'home' on the weekends. Sure is nice of them to help out the state that way.

[BickleTravis]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Create less exemptions in the income tax and it would work. Taxing a person's home with the threat to throw them out is an abomination.

Well, Arctichomesteader, VT can't tax income earned in other states. So, if we financed the schools by only taxing the income of the Vermonters who work in VT, I'd bet most schools would close.