[nebloke]

Originally Posted by pamjedlicka

Yep, we each have to do what works best for us. I would never be able to afford 14K in taxes in retirement! yikes! I'd HAVE to continue working. Getting away for 6-8 weeks near the end of winter IS an option we are considering. Sounds like you have a good plan in place.

Would love to have a 2nd home in VT on the land that has been a labor of love for us since the day we bought it but can't afford two high tax states at the same time. We've thought about moving to Vt in retirement for our primary residence but how much less would our property taxes be in VT than in NJ - $3,000 or 4,000/yr? That's only $250 to $350 less per month and not worth it to us. We love VT for many reasons but would never want to live there full time even if we could escape to a warmer climate in late winter and early spring.

Our current $14K/year taxes equates to $1,167/mo, less after you factor in the tax right off. What can you rent in any northeast metropolitan area for less than a $1,000/mo.?

[nebloke]

Originally Posted by ansible90

A house near Killington could be rented out for the entire ski season. But as a non-resident and with a rental property, you would be paying the full amount on the real estate taxes. However, a small house may not be so much. But if you are a resident and your income is below $100,000 or so, you will get a "discount" on the property tax.

We are in Plymouth near Coolidge and the demand for seasonal ski rentals is not strong at all there even though we are only 15 minutes from both Killington and Okemo. I don't even think it's all that strong at the mountain these days, the ski house scene isn't what it used to be I'm told. Outside of ski season, the rental demand in our area is non-existent. Even if there was a strong demand during the ski season, that is one of the main times that we would want to be there intermittently.

The bottom line is that the cost of ownership for a 2nd home in VT is too high for us which outweighs the enjoyment even if we could afford it. That's not the case at a southern beach, the winter snowbird rental demand is strong and so is the summer season, both times that we would not be there so the rental income combined with low taxes makes it much more affordable and attractive to us than a 2nd home in VT.

[Biker53]

Originally Posted by nebloke

Would love to have a 2nd home in VT on the land that has been a labor of love for us since the day we bought it but can't afford two high tax states at the same time. We've thought about moving to Vt in retirement for our primary residence but how much less would our property taxes be in VT than in NJ - $3,000 or 4,000/yr? That's only $250 to $350 less per month and not worth it to us. We love VT for many reasons but would never want to live there full time even if we could escape to a warmer climate in late winter and early spring.

Our current $14K/year taxes equates to $1,167/mo, less after you factor in the tax right off. What can you rent in any northeast metropolitan area for less than a $1,000/mo.?

Unless you are building an estate level home on your VT land your taxes are going to be maybe 1/3 what you pay in NJ. I'm not all that far from where you are talking with 26 flat mostly open acres (6 of which is a park-like lawn surrounding the house), a 2,700 sq. ft home plus 3 car garage w/upstairs, 16X24 gazebo surrounded by formal gardens, a good sized new greenhouse w/potting shed, 1,000' of restored stone wall running along the road, and a large pond in the backyard....and my taxes before a State Payment subsidizing my taxes are $5,500. I can see people slowing down to look at my place and the property is a favorite spot for prom photos and the like.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by Biker53

Unless you are building an estate level home on your VT land your taxes are going to be maybe 1/3 what you pay in NJ. I'm not all that far from where you are talking with 26 flat mostly open acres (6 of which is a park-like lawn surrounding the house), a 2,700 sq. ft home plus 3 car garage w/upstairs, 16X24 gazebo surrounded by formal gardens, a good sized new greenhouse w/potting shed, 1,000' of restored stone wall running along the road, and a large pond in the backyard....and my taxes before a State Payment subsidizing my taxes are $5,500. I can see people slowing down to look at my place and the property is a favorite spot for prom photos and the like.

Sounds good!! I really need to use the state calculator and figure out what kind of subsidy I might receive.

[nebloke]

Originally Posted by Biker53

Unless you are building an estate level home on your VT land your taxes are going to be maybe 1/3 what you pay in NJ. I'm not all that far from where you are talking with 26 flat mostly open acres (6 of which is a park-like lawn surrounding the house), a 2,700 sq. ft home plus 3 car garage w/upstairs, 16X24 gazebo surrounded by formal gardens, a good sized new greenhouse w/potting shed, 1,000' of restored stone wall running along the road, and a large pond in the backyard....and my taxes before a State Payment subsidizing my taxes are $5,500. I can see people slowing down to look at my place and the property is a favorite spot for prom photos and the like.

My VT taxes now on 20 acres with a low budget camp on it and a small barn/large shed are $1,500. It's worth less than $100K in today's market. I can't imagine how my taxes would only go up by $4,000 if I built everything on it that you have which would cost somewhere between $300-$400k conservatively. The value of the property would theoretically go up 4-500% based on these improvements but the taxes would only increase by around 270%? Is that correct?

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by nebloke

My VT taxes now on 20 acres with a low budget camp on it and a small barn/large shed are $1,500. It's worth less than $100K in today's market. I can't imagine how my taxes would only go up by $4,000 if I built everything on it that you have which would cost somewhere between $300-$400k conservatively. The value of the property would theoretically go up 4-500% based on these improvements but the taxes would only increase by around 270%? Is that correct?

Most of the towns around there tuition out to Woodstock so there is a big surcharge on the residential state school tax rate and the town has no control over it. If you have New Jersey-level retirement income, you're likely too high income to get the school tax means tested away. A mill rate that's a very New Jersey-like $21 to $22-ish per thousand valuation that is similar to the non-resident/commercial rate. New construction on that 20 acres sounds like a $10K property tax bill to me.


I have retired friends at Hawk near you who are bailing out. Health care means Dartmouth-Hitchcock. As they've aged, they're making more use of it. It's too far and the roads winter driving become more of an issue as you age.

[cgregor]

The taxes on my 12-acre camp are close to $2,500, and I feel that every penny of them serves my friends and neighbors well. If we can't all enjoy the environmental protection, good roads, good education and economic security that they provide us, however scantily, then we will live in a society where we envy our neighbor, despise our government and lead lives tinged with fear. That's not the way anybody in Vermont should have to live. I look forward to having those taxes raised so all Vermonters can enjoy the level of health care the people in countries from France to Colombia have had for years.

[nebloke]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Most of the towns around there tuition out to Woodstock so there is a big surcharge on the residential state school tax rate and the town has no control over it. If you have New Jersey-level retirement income, you're likely too high income to get the school tax means tested away. A mill rate that's a very New Jersey-like $21 to $22-ish per thousand valuation that is similar to the non-resident/commercial rate. New construction on that 20 acres sounds like a $10K property tax bill to me.

+/- $10K is what I've always figured our taxes would be in Plymouth if we ever built a real house on it. That is not doable for us on a 2nd home with no offsetting rental income which is why we've decided that our second home will be at a southern beach community with low taxes and decent rental income to significantly offset the already lower cost of ownership.

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I have retired friends at Hawk near you who are bailing out. Health care means Dartmouth-Hitchcock. As they've aged, they're making more use of it. It's too far and the roads winter driving become more of an issue as you age.

As I mentioned in another post, we've thought about selling our home in NJ in retirement and building a primary residence on our VT property but the tax savings of +/-$4,000 aren't enough for us to put up with all of the inconveniences, distance to health care being one of them along with the proximity of just about every other convenience/necessity. We love to get away to the relative remoteness of our place in VT which is probably our favorite thing about it but know that it would not be for us on a full time basis.

[Biker53]

Originally Posted by nebloke

My VT taxes now on 20 acres with a low budget camp on it and a small barn/large shed are $1,500. It's worth less than $100K in today's market. I can't imagine how my taxes would only go up by $4,000 if I built everything on it that you have which would cost somewhere between $300-$400k conservatively. The value of the property would theoretically go up 4-500% based on these improvements but the taxes would only increase by around 270%? Is that correct?

Most of that $100,000 value is likely assigned to the land. That portion won't change if you put a nice house on it. Odds are the Listers in your town are not going to raise the value by whatever it cost you to build. I'm a Lister and that's how we do it in my town. My son is building a home in another town and will have spent more than $400,000 by time he's totally done. Based on the partial-built assessment he got this year and the fixed nature of the land value under it, it is looking like his finished valuation for tax purposes will be $300,000 - $350,000.

You do have the right to grieve your valuation each year.

[nebloke]

Originally Posted by cgregor

The taxes on my 12-acre camp are close to $2,500, and I feel that every penny of them serves my friends and neighbors well. If we can't all enjoy the environmental protection, good roads, good education and economic security that they provide us, however scantily, then we will live in a society where we envy our neighbor, despise our government and lead lives tinged with fear. That's not the way anybody in Vermont should have to live. I look forward to having those taxes raised so all Vermonters can enjoy the level of health care the people in countries from France to Colombia have had for years.

I have a cousin who retired from a lifelong career at General Motors and just built a new lakefront house with a large dock and boathouse on a lake in a southern state worth about $400-500K and pays $700/year in taxes. They have good environmental protection, much better roads than VT, an education system on par with Vt, and in an area with a MUCH better economic picture than Vt. They don't "live in a society where they envy their neighbors, despise their government and lead lives tinged with fear. They love their neighbors who are warm friendly and outgoing people, like their government for not taxing them to death, and the only fear they are tinged with is that too many northerners fleeing their high taxes will flood in and trample the place like they have at so many other places down there.