[Logs and Dogs]

I just had the time to read that whole article and man that just pisses me off sideways.....

It pains me to say this but if I were him, I would work on plans 1A and B. One other approach if he loses this battle, would be to grow all the rye there on the farm and store whatever the heck he wants on the property, then approach Factoryville/Ticonderoga about building the distillery itself just over the line in NY. That being said I would imagine NY has some hoops as well, but it's worth looking at. Someone would have to be more than happy taking a few hundred grand in taxes along with creating 10-30 new jobs.

The capper to my annoyance with this whole thing is we are talking about significant distillation talent here....the dude he hired is from Maker's Mark, this isn't some upstart rocking his papy's moonshine recipe without the ability to scale it to commerical levels. Like Hill Farmstead, Lawson's, Alchemist etc. are to beer, WhistlePig is well on their way to being for Whiskey.

If the state had some semblance of a vision they would see there are things VT could be known for other than Maple products (which Quebec really destroys VT in scale), high end cheeses, oustanding world class breweries and now possibly an elite distillery. Additionally, these things bring in tourist dollars, a lot of them. My whole group of friends and acquantences plan their weekend trips to hit the brewery trails and beer-centric restaurants like Positive Pie, Parker Pie, Prohibition Pig etc. A distillery like this can be the launching point for people to begin hitting up Caledonia Distillery etc. for their Barr Hill products etc.

Oh this just makes me shake my head and want to drive a combine across the next berry farm I see in Addison County.....so glad I'm in the NEK normally.....

Rant over....

[arctichomesteader]

I like berries, jams, don't drink, and I think the berry farm person is out of their mind. If there's any mold or fungus danger at all, it's only in the buildings of the distillery. Utterly silly.

This is why we need to maintain the NEK's reputation of not being friendly territory for the crazy sort of flatlanders, logs and dogs.

[vter]

Experts: Vt. population loss challenge to growth - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-

[Logs and Dogs]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I like berries, jams, don't drink, and I think the berry farm person is out of their mind. If there's any mold or fungus danger at all, it's only in the buildings of the distillery. Utterly silly.

This is why we need to maintain the NEK's reputation of not being friendly territory for the crazy sort of flatlanders, logs and dogs.

Agreed. I'll unfortunately have to represent the not-so-crazy-but-still-a-friggin-flatlander contingent.....these people are the ones that make my life harder than it has to be. I'm all for challenges but it doesn't mean I want to keep making things more difficult

I think berry lady needs to sit down, take a deep breath, swig back some whiskey and realize babies aren't dying if a distillery opens 3000yds away.....

The worst part is the towns/counties have their collective heads up their collective arse's so much that it indulges this nonsense. Part of me thinks the guy should say "Fine, here's a big can of go eff yourself, I'm taking my business, 30 jobs and tax $ to NYS or NH and I'm turning this place into a 500 acre pig farm. I hope you like the smell of crap lady. Welcome to Vermont. Enjoy your berries.".

Again, I really do hope he works his way through a hole in this business condom.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by vter

Experts: Vt. population loss challenge to growth - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-

Adding something to what this article points out, there was an interesting program on a radio station (can't remember which one, possibly VPR). It did not single out Vermont, but it definitely was geared towards our situation. When states grow older and lose population, no matter how small or insignificant the change, their economic futures are not as optimistic as states with growth and youth. What happens is the wealth or income (taxable income the state can make) pattern changes. The older residents of most states require more social services to survive in retirement or as they are getting closer to retirement. When a states population starts to become older, there is statistical proof that generated money for states shrinks. This in turn has a very negative effect. States have tough choices to make. They can significantly increase taxes on the working class, increase everyone's taxes, cut services for the people that may need them the most or a combination of the above. We have been seeing this pattern for several years with lower generated income taxes along with budget deficits.

[Logs and Dogs]

That is a vicious circle.....keep raising the tax rates and people making money and paying taxes leave, then what? Keep increasing the rates as the state needs to generate the same total $ amount from a smaller pie....

It's almost better for the old to retire to FL.....takes care of the demand portion of the equation.....

Tough choices indeed.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by Logs and Dogs

That is a vicious circle.....keep raising the tax rates and people making money and paying taxes leave, then what? Keep increasing the rates as the state needs to generate the same total $ amount from a smaller pie....

It's almost better for the old to retire to FL.....takes care of the demand portion of the equation.....

Tough choices indeed.

No, anywhere but Florida!

[ladelfina]

FY, L&D, you crack me up… Yeah, I would pick the distillery over the jam place, too! There's too much goddam jam & jelly in VT and in the universe. Who the hell eats all of it? I get the feeling it is bought solely by little old ladies, and largely re-gifted. But then I am a person who likes salty snacks rather than sweet.

"Airborne whiskey cooties". This may or may not be a real concern. Concentrations of any kind of effluent can be bad news for abutters and the rest of the community. One big problem is scale and concentration: our system says "all the pork must be raised here" and "all the distilling must be done there" and "all the garbage must go to the landfill" and "all the people must be kept far away from the pork and the whiskey and the garbage"; this artificially imposes the problem of mass concentrations of waste products.

Better to let everyone have their own pig and their own still, yeh? Feed the pig the mash, grow the corn with the pig sh*t, etc.

[Logs and Dogs]

Originally Posted by ladelfina

fy, l&d, you crack me up… yeah, i would pick the distillery over the jam place, too! There's too much goddam jam & jelly in vt and in the universe. Who the hell eats all of it? I get the feeling it is bought solely by little old ladies, and largely re-gifted. But then i am a person who likes salty snacks rather than sweet.

"airborne whiskey cooties". This may or may not be a real concern. Concentrations of any kind of effluent can be bad news for abutters and the rest of the community. One big problem is scale and concentration: Our system says "all the pork must be raised here" and "all the distilling must be done there" and "all the garbage must go to the landfill" and "all the people must be kept far away from the pork and the whiskey and the garbage"; this artificially imposes the problem of mass concentrations of waste products.

Better to let everyone have their own pig and their own still, yeh? Feed the pig the mash, grow the corn with the pig sh*t, etc.

:d

Yeah the FL thing was obviously tounge in cheek.....I was a little punchy yesterday.

As for the Jam Lady and the airborn cooties.....I'm going out on a limb and saying this is being blown out of proportion.

[FrugalYankee]

I admit to being the one who coined the term "airborne cooties" and I was being deliberately derisive.

Disclaimer: I am not a mold expert but I consider myself able to tell scientific fact from hype.

The mold in question is called Baudoinia Compniacensis and has been associated with a black sooty appearance of buildings "in the vicinity" of distilleries and commercial bakeries(!). Looks like berry lady isn't going to be expanding into pies anytime soon.
Baudoinia compniacensis UAMH 10762 - Home
The key phrase for me is "in the vicinity."

There is an interesting series of documents from a case in Louisville KY, where residents voiced complaints regarding black soot.
Info on Aging Warehouse Emissions - Permits & Compliance - LouisvilleKy.gov
Following release of the reports, the case settled out of court.

The map shown in the first report is about 1.3 miles x 1.3 miles, or 1.7 sq mile, which is about 1000 acres. WhistlePig has 500 acres, in contrast to distilleries located in the middle of residential areas. I have to wonder about the cluster of affected houses a mile away from the warehouses in the one report. Just as an aside, whiskey distilleries are not the only cause of black soot in residential neighborhoods.

From where I am sitting, WhistlePig guy has options in addition to those that Logs and Dogs mentioned: install a scrubber or pay off berry lady. The scrubber is probably cheaper. And he wouldn't have to put his distillery in NY, I'm sure that most if not all of the towns in Windsor county (except for Woodstock of course) would take him in a heartbeat. He'd just have to watch that he doesn't pick a town that assesses a capital assets tax on businesses.