[Logs and Dogs]

Scrubber is a great alternative.

I think I'm a pretty reasonable guy when it comes to compromise for the most part and while I'm fine with some surrounding folks and the town having a discussion about potential impacts etc. I hate how those discussions tend to come from the perspective of "this is why it can't work" vs. "this is what we can do to make it work".

I find that paradigm pervasive in my own day to day work life. Any type of change from the status quo people will provide me with a laundry list of why the new appraoch won't work; how about dedicating some of that energy towards working on how we can make it work.

[fireandice1000]

I stumbled across this thread and had to respond. I think Vermont could really benefit from the biotech growth over in upstate NY and I think Vermont's government should encourage either biotech or its satellite industries to come over the border. It's a shame what's happening to Vermont since I've been through the state before and it's a nice place to live in if you want a more laid back lifestyle.

I think the problems Vermont faces are probably unique as a whole to New England. My impression of the New England states is that, with maybe the exception of Massachutsetts, they are playground states for the wealthy people out of the NYC area. I'm not trying to be a prick when I say that, it's just that New England isn't economically very strong overall. Of course, you could make that argument for all the smaller states in general; I live in the Dakotas and these states are economically backwards. I think most states under 8 million just simply don't have the strength per capita that is necessary for any good paying jobs. Vermont has the blue-state mentality which I think is a plus though as far as attracting the high-level service jobs.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by fireandice1000

I stumbled across this thread and had to respond. I think Vermont could really benefit from the biotech growth over in upstate NY and I think Vermont's government should encourage either biotech or its satellite industries to come over the border. It's a shame what's happening to Vermont since I've been through the state before and it's a nice place to live in if you want a more laid back lifestyle.

I think the problems Vermont faces are probably unique as a whole to New England. My impression of the New England states is that, with maybe the exception of Massachutsetts, they are playground states for the wealthy people out of the NYC area. I'm not trying to be a prick when I say that, it's just that New England isn't economically very strong overall. Of course, you could make that argument for all the smaller states in general; I live in the Dakotas and these states are economically backwards. I think most states under 8 million just simply don't have the strength per capita that is necessary for any good paying jobs. Vermont has the blue-state mentality which I think is a plus though as far as attracting the high-level service jobs.

There are barriers like Act 250 that make some of these changes very challenging. While the act has well intended criteria, they are a bit old and outdated. Essentially the same act has been in place for about 43 years with little change. The natural beauty of the state is important, but we have also evolved a bit over the past 40+ years.

[FrugalYankee]

I stumbled upon this gem which is not hot off the press, but which expresses reasonably well what I see as happening.
Fabian Gentrification

[wanneroo]

My business lets me live wherever. My work is not dependent on the local economy. I would have certainly have considered or would consider Vermont, but too much in the way of blue state politics and high taxation. I've come across others in my age group that feel the same way. It seems to me to be a state sticking it's head in the sand and young people will continue to avoid it.

[FrugalYankee]

I found another gem. This one has specific suggestions for making that Act 250 sacred cow less of a means by which any fool can nip a small business in the bud.

http://ethanallen.org/pdf/OffTheRailsFINAL.pdf

It was nice of them to call it "Off the Rails" as opposed to "Train Wreck." It also spells out why the long term change in demographics is going to be a disaster for Vermont.

[Skiplarue]

Originally Posted by MTK1

As the former Governor said.

Vermont Gov. James Douglas is treating the situation like a crisis.

Without more working people, “we won't have tax revenue for anything other than public education and Medicaid,” Douglas said. “There'll be no money for anything else.”

The facts:

Highest number of High School graduates attending college out of state in the US with the highest number staying where they go to school.

Currently has the oldest US population.

Lowest birth rate in the US.

Most expensive US public colleges in the US. (VT spends more on prison's then education)

I would love to stay here but it is just so hard to get by. Both my girlfriend and I work 2 jobs and barely can pay the bills. We are both well educated and in our late 20's. I am from CT and she is from VT. Literally every single one of her friends from VT has left the state and we are leaving ourselves. We have actually been putting money aside for the last 2 years just to leave.

In my opinion nothing is going to change here.

Bottom line. Unless VT does something to try and keep its youth here. The state is doomed.

The New York Times ran a great article 5 years ago.

Vermont Losing Prized Resource as Young Depart

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/04/na...pagewanted=all

And we are the latest in young families to leave. We can't find enough work to pay the outrageous cost of living here. We are 3rd and 4th generation Vters. We're moving to PA. This pulls 2 kids out of a school of under 130 due to decline. 2 more families, 5 kids, are leaving for other parts of the country. 3 from the 5th grade alone. When we each work two jobs and have to decide on heat or food, something is drastically wrong. So is the family on welfare and food stamps, watching their 70" flat screen tv and talking on their iphones. Typical VT now, unfortunately. Locals are no longer welcome here.

[voyager977]

Well, we've now been in VT for 2 years and are just as happy as when we arrived.

One child just finished 8th grade with his class of 14 kids and is heading on to high school next month. The other two continue with their school of 118 students and are doing quite well.

Regarding cost of living, we've found ways to keep heating costs down like joining Vermont Farm Bureau and getting member pricing on propane. Also, getting fleece feety pajamas and keeping the thermostat in the 60's.

With respect to the original topic of this thread, we've seen several young people moving back to our little town. Some to raise their families and others because they miss the small town life. There are jobs in Burlington, Williston and Plattsburgh. Maybe not all the best jobs in the country, but jobs nonetheless.

We also manage food & fuel expenses by shopping @Costco for bulk items, carpooling to shop and to get to kids' sports activities with friends and growing and sharing veggies. Little actions help a lot. Also, no cable TV, phone service using a voice over IP device so we only need internet from Comcast and not their $50 per month phone service.

Also driving cars that are 10 and 11 yrs. old with 170k and 190k miles respectively. Cheaper to keep them going than to buy replacements.

That's it for now.

[vter]

Originally Posted by voyager977

Well, we've now been in VT for 2 years and are just as happy as when we arrived.

With respect to the original topic of this thread, we've seen several young people moving back to our little town. Some to raise their families and others because they miss the small town life. There are jobs in Burlington, Williston and Plattsburgh. Maybe not all the best jobs in the country, but jobs nonetheless.


That's it for now.

This. I've often said on this forum that someone should do a study as to how many Vermonters move back to the state in their late 20s/30s. Lots of my high school classmates have done that. They went away for college, got their careers and families started and then came back. The grass is not always greener on the other side for many people.

Glad you are enjoying Vermont and have found that it is a fantastic place to live.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by LisaMc46

Even the liberal weekly, "Seven Days," wrote an article about two years ago confirming this is a problem after some other liberal newspapers tried to dispute Douglas' claims that the youth were fleeing VT.

As a middle-aged mom with three kids I don't see myself staying here forever b/c it won't be financially feasible unless I win the lottery. My kids are already planning to attend school out of state and I doubt they'll return here b/c of the lack of opportunity (why make $50,000 in VT when you can make $75,000 in another state with a similar cost of living?).

The jokesters in Montpelier just don't understand what the middle class are dealing with. They're completely focused on squeezing more money out of our tiny percentage of rich folk and giving as much money as possible to the poor rather than providing them with better paying jobs.

Having the rich pay their fair share seems like a good idea for the middle class.