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I've been investigating New Hampshire as a place to live, and the states of Maine and Vermont also ranked high on my list. Only trouble is, they have very high taxes. Vermont recently ranked as the #10 most taxed state when considering state tax burden as a percentage of income... whereas New Hampshire ranked 49th as the second lowest-taxed state in the union.
This isn't something that happened overnight. I even hear that a VT-NH border town (though I don't remember its name) has been trying to secede from VT and become part of NH.
Therefore, for those of you who are relatively recent transplants to Vermont but live very close to the NH border, what made you choose to live in VT rather than just over the NH border so you could take advantage of the low taxes?
I figure there has to be some reason why border towns on the VT side are not ghost towns, and why property on the VT side is not noticeably cheaper than property in NH. Tell me your thoughts.
All the comparisons between Vermont and NH that you and most everyone else looks at are headline taxes, sale and income. Drill down to the next level and the numbers change. Every state needs money to operate, money does not grow on trees. If you compare property taxes and the other hundreds of fees and taxes states charge to keep the state running, you will see what I mean.
Even the way many of these taxes are determined between the two states are completely diferent, Property taxes is one big example. It never ceases to amaze me here in Vermont when someone buys a big expensive home with some land, they then complain about their property tax bill. Individual due diligence regarding purchasing a new home seems to be a forgotten important responsibiliy when purchasing a new home which boggles my mind since we now have this thing called the internet which makes it so easy to check that out. I don't have a smartphone, but a common sense app would be a good thing for those that do.
As a former Vermonter who is now a NH resident I had to laugh at Killington's widely publicized attempt to secede and join NH. I'm sure they would love having nothing but dirt roads or paved roads full of potholes that don't get repaired joining them to the outside world and their beloved tourists.
I have zero sympathy for them. They benefit from state has marketing campaigns aimed at promoting the tourist industry and all these people have to do is collect sales and use tax, rooms and meals tax from their wealthy customers and pass it on to the state. They should stop whining and get into some other industry sector; they'll see how good they have it.
NH has creative ways of raising revenue, so it may or may not be cheaper to live in NH. VT's higher property costs is because of out of state money. Real estate values here are almost entirely disconnected from the local economy.
All the comparisons between Vermont and NH that you and most everyone else looks at are headline taxes, sale and income. Drill down to the next level and the numbers change. Every state needs money to operate, money does not grow on trees. If you compare property taxes and the other hundreds of fees and taxes states charge to keep the state running, you will see what I mean.
Even the way many of these taxes are determined between the two states are completely diferent, Property taxes is one big example. It never ceases to amaze me here in Vermont when someone buys a big expensive home with some land, they then complain about their property tax bill. Individual due diligence regarding purchasing a new home seems to be a forgotten important responsibiliy when purchasing a new home which boggles my mind since we now have this thing called the internet which makes it so easy to check that out. I don't have a smartphone, but a common sense app would be a good thing for those that do.
it's like buying a car. some car companies will give you a low interst rate but nothing off the price of the car. some will give you cash back, but a high interest rate. some a little of each. it all shakes out in the end. if some states are offering great tax benefits in one area, they're hitting you in another. it's not like you'll live like a pauper in Vermont and a king in NH because certain taxes are more appealing.
it's like buying a car. some car companies will give you a low interst rate but nothing off the price of the car. some will give you cash back, but a high interest rate. some a little of each. it all shakes out in the end. if some states are offering great tax benefits in one area, they're hitting you in another. it's not like you'll live like a pauper in Vermont and a king in NH because certain taxes are more appealing.
NH has one of the lowest tax burdens of any state in the country while VT has one of the highest. You will be able to save and invest more money in NH and have a higher QOL if you find a good paying position. Also, if you pick the right town you can find reasonably priced houses with lower taxes.
My house in VT has lower taxes than the house I used to own in NH at the same market value, and I get better schools for my kids. Sure, I have to pay income taxes but it's worth it! NH is a good state though, just not as much for me because I really love the whole support local/community centric vibe here vs Live Free or Die. I'd live in NH if I couldn't live in VT and certainly before any other state except maybe Oregon.
NH has one of the lowest tax burdens of any state in the country while VT has one of the highest. You will be able to save and invest more money in NH and have a higher QOL if you find a good paying position. Also, if you pick the right town you can find reasonably priced houses with lower taxes.
Seems like that's the case. I'm just checking all of my options. An analogy was made about buying a car, in a previous post... well, I once sold cars (failed miserably because I'm an honest guy, but still, learned the game)... one of the things we had to do with customers who came in looking for a certain type of car was test them both ways. For example, I sold Hyundais. If someone came in looking at a Sonata, you ask things like "If it would save you maybe $50-75 per month on your car payment, would you consider an Elantra?" That way you see if they're really set on the bigger car, or if they're more the budget-conscious type. You also ask "If I could get you into a pre-owned XL350 with maybe 30-40 thousand miles on it, for the same price and payment, would you consider an XL350?" That way you figure out if they're looking for the biggest car their money can buy, or if they're just looking for the biggest NEW car their money can buy.
So, when I zero in on a possibility, I like to test the adjoining possibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momnh
My house in VT has lower taxes than the house I used to own in NH at the same market value, and I get better schools for my kids. Sure, I have to pay income taxes but it's worth it! NH is a good state though, just not as much for me because I really love the whole support local/community centric vibe here vs Live Free or Die. I'd live in NH if I couldn't live in VT and certainly before any other state except maybe Oregon.
My wife and I don't have any kids... and I'm not sure when we will have kids. Let's just say that we're letting God call the shot on that one... and thus far, no pregnancy. When the time comes that we have kids, we'll decide what we really want to do as far as schooling. I'm a teacher, and could surely make up any gaps in my kids' education if need be. The general definition of "good school" vs. "bad school" is a lot of garbage, as far as I'm concerned. I went to a "good school" as a kid, and had an experience so bad that I would've done anything to upgrade it to a merely "miserable" experience. What defines a good school or a bad school? Frankly, I don't think it's the teachers... it's more the kids and their families. I taught at a "bad" high school for a year and found some very dedicated teachers and administrators... the experience I had as a teacher there was nothing like the community's general opinion of that high school. The only logical explanation for the disconnect between the two was that the people in the community didn't want to look at themselves in the mirror in order to ascertain the problem. I tried to help my students as best I could and found that very few of the parents really gave a rip. It would seem, to me, that the best thing to do when considering a school is to get into an area that is basically a nice area. If you do that, chances are, the school will be nice whether the community is affluent or not. I've seen this in action for myself.
And if I turn out to be wrong, the school's administrators will find out, very quickly, that their "bad school" had better become a "good school" for my kid or else my lawyers will be up their butts all day every day. My children WILL NOT have a bad school experience like I did. There are laws out the ying-yang to prevent against such things and I will see to it, with every fiber of my being, that those laws are followed to the letter.
That is, if we don't homeschool.
Anyway, I'm a "Live Free Or Die" guy. I like supporting my local community... I buy local whenever I can... but I like minimal government meddling in my affairs. However, VT has that nifty "open carry" law... which I really like. Admittedly, I'm not sure I'd even think about VT were it not for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader
NH has creative ways of raising revenue, so it may or may not be cheaper to live in NH. VT's higher property costs is because of out of state money. Real estate values here are almost entirely disconnected from the local economy.
Creative? Explain. I have many thoughts about what they could be, but I figure it's best to have this explained. (For example, in Pennsylvania, they charged a $1 "fee" per new tire you purchased, ostensibly to mitigate the effects of your tire rubber wearing off onto the pavement in the state. Take maybe 5 million cars times one new tire every year, since it's reasonable to assume that within four years you'll have to replace all four, and that's $5,000,000 for the state per year from a minuscule nonsense fee that most people wouldn't even pay attention to. I get it.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRVphotog
All the comparisons between Vermont and NH that you and most everyone else looks at are headline taxes, sale and income. Drill down to the next level and the numbers change. Every state needs money to operate, money does not grow on trees. If you compare property taxes and the other hundreds of fees and taxes states charge to keep the state running, you will see what I mean.
I understand, but some states run more efficiently than others because they're not bogged down by bloated social welfare programs. The states with the least people on welfare are generally the states with the lowest taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRVphotog
Even the way many of these taxes are determined between the two states are completely diferent, Property taxes is one big example. It never ceases to amaze me here in Vermont when someone buys a big expensive home with some land, they then complain about their property tax bill. Individual due diligence regarding purchasing a new home seems to be a forgotten important responsibiliy when purchasing a new home which boggles my mind since we now have this thing called the internet which makes it so easy to check that out. I don't have a smartphone, but a common sense app would be a good thing for those that do.
Why do out-of-staters flock to Vermont instead of the other nearby New England states? I hear so much about out-of-staters buying second homes in VT because of the scenery and tourist stuff... does that stuff not exist in states like NH, ME, upstate NY, etc?
I understand, but some states run more efficiently than others because they're not bogged down by bloated social welfare programs. The states with the least people on welfare are generally the states with the lowest taxes.
Vermont will end up with a budget surplus for fiscal year 2012, your statement is not accurate when you look at the actual facts.
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