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I've been a vegetarian most of my life, and I consider hunting to be the most humane way to obtain meat if a person choses to eat meat.
Same here. I don't understand why people think it's more humane to eat an animal that's lived its entire life in captivity (especially if it's been on a factory farm) than to eat a wild animal that lived its entire life enjoying freedom.
Also, I imagine that a single shot from a hunting rifle would be a more humane way for an animal to die than most slaughterhouse procedures.
Same here. I don't understand why people think it's more humane to eat an animal that's lived its entire life in captivity (especially if it's been on a factory farm) than to eat a wild animal that lived its entire life enjoying freedom.
Also, I imagine that a single shot from a hunting rifle would be a more humane way for an animal to die than most slaughterhouse procedures.
Bingo !!!
It is interesting, I have noticed a shift over the past 10 years or so since the Interweb has created so many online communities. Many folks who were previously vegetarian etc. have run through that cycle and decided they wanted some meat back in their diet but in limited quantities and only from organic sources. There is nothing more organic than wild game. Obviously the vegetarian lifestyle isn't for everyone and some folks entered it as a statement about our food sources as much or more than health. To each their own and I wish them well, but I thought it was an interesting observation.
I have seen a good number of folks take up hunting in the past 10 years from the ranks of previous non-hunters for the very reason of gathering their own meat; many of which are highly educated folks with good steady jobs etc. Not the mass-media version of hunters which usually has an agenda or angle attached to it.
We have a whole generation of kids who think chicken or beef exists only on a meat-maxipad wrapped in plastic.....they fail to make the connection that it was a living creature days before. When you put yourself in the middle of the process, you appreciate and respect the whole cycle more than ever.
Just my opinion, but what do I know.....
Back to topic. OP here are some simple facts and observations that may help your concerns:
1. High powered rifles , used for big game: in States like Vt, NH, Me, PA, parts of NY etc. where population density is moderately low, there are hills, and most importantly a lot of trees, hunters are allowed to use rifles firing a bullet, which can carry for several hundred yards were it not for the obstructions etc. Shots at deer in these places are usually taken within 100 yards and its rare that a bullet carries much more than that before it runs into a tree. In flatter states, shotgun slugs are used which, due to their weight and poor trajectory , will tumble to the ground after 150 yds or so.
2. Where people hunt: most states have rules about how close to a building you can be. This may be 100 or 200 yds - depends on the state, and I'm not that familiar with the laws in Vt. If the land is posted, you cannot hunt without written permission. In Vt, NH, and Me it has been customary not to post land. That is still the case up north anyway.
3. Hunter orange: most eastern states require hunters to wear min. 200 sq. inches of flourescent orange. This can be limited to a hat, or hat and vest. Its almost always the case for big game hunting, and state by state for small game hunting. Go to your local sporting goods store where they sell licenses and ask for the hunting laws summary which you should be able to get for free...or find the laws on line. It would be a good idea to know when the rifle season is and wear orange if you are out in the woods then.
4. In VT the popular hunting activities would be woodcock and partridge hunting (Ruffed Grouse technically) beginning around 10/1 (with shotguns at short range) and deer hunting with rifles, beginning in early November. Most guys are done by winter, though there are still hunting opportunities. Bow hunting for deer is increasingly popular in September and October. Shots are typically withing 30 yards, so errors are very unlikely. Other game includes rabbits/hare, bears, turkey- though these don't pull the numbers that grouse and deer do.
5. Generally hunting is a very safe sport, simply because people don't take it lightly when they go out with a weapon. Most accidents involve falling etc. - very few people are shot- we're talking 0+ fatalities in a state like Vt commonly. We usually have 2 or 4 in PA but we have over a million deer hunters. Boating, and bike riding are statistically quite a bit more dangerous. The mistaken coyote scenario seems to happen each year somewhere- 'not much to say about it except some people are just unfamiliar with coyotes and stupid, simultaneously.
I live in Alabama now, but there are issues with land rights and common courtesy and safety that are being brushed over in this thread.
First - the safety zone around a house is a no-brainer. There are laws here that prevent hunters from firing within a few hundred feet of a home. I've yet to see a cite on any Vermont law like that. If a hunter can't tell what he is shooting at, he has no business pulling the trigger. Young kids are about dog size.
Second - There are AMPLE national forests and public lands in Vermont. When I hunted there as a resident, that is where I went. Hunting on private property was ALWAYS with permission.
Third - Like it or not, the country has changed. The fellow outside with a gun ALWAYS used to be a hunter. No one had any fear that it was a thief, someone growing a hidden patch of pot, or a wacko. If you come on my property now with a gun under your arm, you BETTER have asked permission first. I don't care if it is hunting season or not.
Fourth - I'm well aware of the animals on my property and to some extent their habits. I find them fascinating to watch and the interplay interesting. Some need harvesting, some are invasives, and some need to stay around. If you wanted to harvest squirrels, or racoons or armadillos, I'd be happy to give permission. If you want to hunt deer, there is one doe with a limp that needs it. The buck is a friend and I'd rather he be left alone. Every animal does not = meat. Every animal does not = trophy.
Fifth - what is on my property is... MINE. What part of that do city people not understand? I've had people come out in the middle of the night prowling around for ginsing. A few shots in the ground after they refused to answer my call sent them packing. Just because something is in an area that is not under obvious cultivation or lawn care does not mean it is free for the taking. I don't go on people's lawns and rip out their shrubs to take home and sell.
Sixth - I've got nothing against hunting. A young neighbor kid wanted to hunt this year on my property with bow and arrow, and I said "Sure, just let me know a day in advance because I do target practice." Another kid, who is not as mature, wanted to hunt with a rifle, and I told him that he would have to convince my wife first.
Where I live, it is a rare day that goes by when I don't hear gunshots from neighbors. I like that. I also like that everyone has a sense of boundaries and courtesy.
FWIW, the national forest lands here have been so badly managed for years they're deserts as far as deer go. The best hunting is on private lands in most of the state (for example, Southern Vermont's valleys and the Champlain Valley have the most productive deer habitat, and the least amount of public land). Collecting plants like ginseng (usually for profit) is a bit different than hunting game. Wildlife doesn't belong to landowners, it's owned by everyone in common (which translates to the state), since animals don't recognize private property lines. In one morning a deer could cross a dozen different parcels of land. Collecting plants, rocks, etc., has always required permission on private property here. Likewise, setting traps requires permission. I think it's pretty much common sense that anyone planning to hunt needs to scout out where they will be hunting to figure out where any nearby houses, livestock pens, etc., are.
There aren't really that many illegal drug operations going on in the woods here during deer season. It's cold and the pot plants should be dead by November. I think more of that goes on in isolated public lands anyways. Now a person walking by your yard with a rifle in July might not be a hunter (could be a coyote hunter but I'd understand someone having concern for that).
I don't want us to become like the South. The South adopted the European model of hunting access, where access is limited to landowners. This has given rise to hunting leases which I believe will be the death of hunting in this country, it will make it a rich man's hobby instead of a way for anybody to get some healthy wild meat. New England early on adopted the idea of free trespass to give everyone greater freedom. I've never cared for places where everything is fenced in and you have to pay money just to hike in the woods or to hunt for a few days. It feels oppressive to me.
I hope any landowners dealing with individual troublemakers understand they can have a no trespass order done to keep that troublemaker out, while letting non-troublemakers in. There's no excuse for people who litter, damage the trees, steal plants, shoot towards houses, etc.
FWIW, the national forest lands here have been so badly managed for years they're deserts as far as deer go. The best hunting is on private lands in most of the state (for example, Southern Vermont's valleys and the Champlain Valley have the most productive deer habitat, and the least amount of public land). Collecting plants like ginseng (usually for profit) is a bit different than hunting game. Wildlife doesn't belong to landowners, it's owned by everyone in common (which translates to the state), since animals don't recognize private property lines. In one morning a deer could cross a dozen different parcels of land. Collecting plants, rocks, etc., has always required permission on private property here. Likewise, setting traps requires permission. I think it's pretty much common sense that anyone planning to hunt needs to scout out where they will be hunting to figure out where any nearby houses, livestock pens, etc., are.
There aren't really that many illegal drug operations going on in the woods here during deer season. It's cold and the pot plants should be dead by November. I think more of that goes on in isolated public lands anyways. Now a person walking by your yard with a rifle in July might not be a hunter (could be a coyote hunter but I'd understand someone having concern for that).
I don't want us to become like the South. The South adopted the European model of hunting access, where access is limited to landowners. This has given rise to hunting leases which I believe will be the death of hunting in this country, it will make it a rich man's hobby instead of a way for anybody to get some healthy wild meat. New England early on adopted the idea of free trespass to give everyone greater freedom. I've never cared for places where everything is fenced in and you have to pay money just to hike in the woods or to hunt for a few days. It feels oppressive to me.
I hope any landowners dealing with individual troublemakers understand they can have a no trespass order done to keep that troublemaker out, while letting non-troublemakers in. There's no excuse for people who litter, damage the trees, steal plants, shoot towards houses, etc.
FWIW, the national forest lands here have been so badly managed for years they're deserts as far as deer go.
In all the time I spend in Vermont, I have never seen one deer. I see deer in my own back yard at home, walking across the streets when I'm driving, off in fields on the side of the roads, in the tree lines, dead off the side of the interstates, etc. Deer are everywhere in Pennsylvania. I'm so amazed that isn't the case for Vermont. I assumed it was because the area was so rural that the deer are just off in the wilderness away from site. My relative who lives there has never ever seen a deer. And what's up with moose? Do you really have moose? Yeah, I know there are moose somewhere, I just haven't seen them. The only wildlife I've seen in is the flying squirrel last week and a fisher last month. Fishers are really weird looking animals. I don't even see dead animals on the side of the roads. Where are your animals?
In all the time I spend in Vermont, I have never seen one deer. I see deer in my own back yard at home, walking across the streets when I'm driving, off in fields on the side of the roads, in the tree lines, dead off the side of the interstates, etc. Deer are everywhere in Pennsylvania. I'm so amazed that isn't the case for Vermont. I assumed it was because the area was so rural that the deer are just off in the wilderness away from site. My relative who lives there has never ever seen a deer. And what's up with moose? Do you really have moose? Yeah, I know there are moose somewhere, I just haven't seen them. The only wildlife I've seen in is the flying squirrel last week and a fisher last month. Fishers are really weird looking animals. I don't even see dead animals on the side of the roads. Where are your animals?
There are deer. The deer population today is about half what it was 40 or 50 years ago because so much of the habitat is poorly managed, or has been developed. VT has one of the lowest deer hunting success rates in the country (NH is worse).
I see moose almost everytime I'm in Essex County, around Lewis, Ferdinand, Avery's Gore, Averill, Brighton, etc. In fact, back in October last year one wandered right into my campsite when I was getting my fire going, after a day of bear hunting. The moose populations are low elsewhere in the state, and it's a very reclusive animal. I've seen a couple in isolated parts of Shrewsbury and Plymouth, around Goshen, and I saw some moose hunters pulling one out in Mt. Tabor back in Oct.
Fishers like big areas and they don't like people. They're also more active at night, as are many of our animals. The bear population is growing but they're still not seen often by most people.
Last year I saw all kinds of roadkill foxes, coyotes, raccoons, etc. This year I've seen very little other than porcupines. Fur prices are higher than they've been in years this year, which might account for that. If a fox or coon is lying beside the road with good fur, odds are someone might pick it up if the prices are high.
Our animal population density is generally lower than some states further South of us, but we do have some animals. Even some endangered species are returning, such as martens and lynx. The best way to see wildlife is to pick a good area of habitat and sit down and be very quiet, preferably just before sunrise, or just before sunset. You might see something, or nothing. Be cautious, because some animals are aggressive, not many, but some.
As my buddy from PA likes to joke......"There's a great deer hunting tradition in Vermont.....just not a great deer killing tradition."
Northern VT has better habitat for many game species, which is one of the reasons why I am there. The deer density is higher elsewhere in the state but as you go south I believe it gets pretty poor.
State and National forest land is usually devoid of good game habitat due to poor management practices and the misguided "tree hugger" mentality.
If you want to see a horrible stretch of forest take a walk in virtually any MA state park east of worcester and you will see 60'-80' of dense canopy that has choked out all undergrowth with no cover for small game and no browse for deer......mature forests with no edge cover is no good for wildlife.....just mommies with jogging strollers.....
In all the time I spend in Vermont, I have never seen one deer.
Huh. I frequently see deer in Vermont. The population isn't huge for reasons already mentioned, but they're around. I see deer when I'm walking in the woods, sometimes in the city, frequently when kayaking and driving between towns. I see foxes, raccoons, opossums, and an occasional moose.
If you want to know who lives in Vermont (besides humans), yesterday's Vermont Edition was all about it:
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