[arel]

Originally Posted by 68vette

In Rutland there was a problem with the Latin Kings and the Connecticut State police gave some assistance in dealing with them. Also here in Burlington there are many who get busted from NYC and other cities for drug dealings. I'm sure some of these people have ties to gangs.

Sigh...so many posts about gangs from NYC. Obviously, I can't apologize on behalf of my city, but I am sad to read that so much trouble comes from here. I guess this brings the idea of obnoxious New Yorkers to a whole new level.

Some of my work has touched on gang issues. Very scary.

I believe it is worse in LA than in NYC. I think NYC focuses on social interventions that steer people away from gangs, while LA relies on heavy handed police tactics.

It's a sad commentary on our society that young people have to join gangs to have a sense of belonging and safety. What a waste! And what an oppressive imposition for those who are directly or indirectly victimized.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by arel

Sigh...so many posts about gangs from NYC. Obviously, I can't apologize on behalf of my city, but I am sad to read that so much trouble comes from here. I guess this brings the idea of obnoxious New Yorkers to a whole new level.

Some of my work has touched on gang issues. Very scary.

I believe it is worse in LA than in NYC. I think NYC focuses on social interventions that steer people away from gangs, while LA relies on heavy handed police tactics.

It's a sad commentary on our society that young people have to join gangs to have a sense of belonging and safety. What a waste! And what an oppressive imposition for those who are directly or indirectly victimized.

I love New York. I may be biased because I grew up just outside of NYC. In fact it's much safer than most people think. For example, there have only been 428 murders this year out of a city of over 8.1 million people. Only 35 of those murdered didn't know their murderer. Most people murdered know their killer. 428 sounds like a big number, but do the math and you will see how small it really is. Probably not that different from the murder rate anywhere else in the country. If Burlington had 3 murders a year, the murder rate would be higher than NYC. Many of the crime reports just released show that crime in NYC continues to decline. This is the safest the city has been in 40 years. My hat goes off to all those who steer people in the right direction and focus on proper intervention.

[arel]

I love New York, too.

I'm amazed by that report. New York used to be stereotyped as an urban jungle, and in about 1990 I believe it was the nation's most dangerous city.

But now it is considered the nation's safest big city.

There are lots of reasons for this. Some of it has to do with police tactics, like cracking down on minor crime. Also, I think career ciminals are put away for longer periods of time. And there may also be some demographic issues; there have been fewer young men around of the age at which they are most likely to commit crimes.

Part the toughness associated with New Yorkers is due, I think, to having to distrust strangers and watch one's back.

[Gypsii]

One of the reasons that gangs are able to infiltrate some areas, particularly small quaint towns, is because most folks are in denial about the fact that drugs, alcohol, guns, and violence is an "every town and city" issue that needs to be actively dealt with. That is, while folks are usually paranoid about the Crips and Bloods---historically Black gangs--the reality is that gangs come in all races and creeds. In fact, do some research on the infamous MS13 gang (i.e. the fastest growing in the United States) and you'll find that they make the crips and bloods look like pubescent girls! Today's gangs are well funded, well connected, and, believe it or not, comprised of people from all walks of life including people in both high and low places. If you want to keep your community gang free, you'll need to have a highly paid police force that is selective, well trained, well informed about gang culture, and a strong educational plan for the entire community...including small children. Drugs and weapons (i.e. money) drives gangs. They are ruthless and, like termites, they destroy well established communities. Usually, if the police force is underpaid and understaffed, it is easier for gangs to take over because the lure of being seduced by supplemental funds and street protection is much too much for many cops.

The other issue is poor parenting of our teens which, as we all know, has become problematic primarily because too many parents want to be friends and pals with their kids rather than parents. Parenting MUST begin when the kids are extremely young, values must be literally taught, and kids need a moral compass via which to make proper judgements and decisions. Keeping your kids out of gangs is a message that must be taught early on (even before they realize that gangs exist) and then they need to have the self esteem to not be lured into the drug, sex, alcohol, "I'm looking for a sense of belonging and family" trap. The big question for all parents must be "...are we living as a safe, supportive, and LOVING family?" Kids who see their parents respect, love, laugh, and show affection for one another are much more likely to resist the lures than those who do not.

Just some thoughts...

[arel]

I think a state like Vermont needs to develop a co-ordinated, comprehensive and proactive policy at the state and local level. It should involve family, domestic violence, youth, child welfare, religious, mental health, substance abuse, educational, vocational, medical, law enforcement and correctional services. Entire communities should be involved.

This is a multifaceted, complex problem and it needs multifaceted, complex solutions. And action needs to be proactive, before Vermont society and culture are infested. I hope a huge tragedy does not have to happen before there is the political will to do something.

[KoZmiC NinJa]

My Wife went to a conference on Meth
for her job. The State Police are doing
everything they can to keep it out because
they are very concerned that when it hits it
will change Vermont forever, just like it has
all the other rural areas it plagues.

[chaz longue]

[quote=arel;2023462]I've been reading about that big gang bust in Georgia, where they did an undercover sting using a fake tattoo parlor.

Tattoo parlor run by cops busts gangs - CNN.com

The article said that gangs are all over, even in small towns.

For those who don't click the link, let's just make it clear that the news story refers to the State of Georgia - not the town of Georgia in VT...:

[arel]

Oops.

Actually, I didn't know there was a town of Georgia in Vermont.

[flu189]

It is very admirable that the NYC crime rate have been reduced, however, as the saying goes what goes up must come down and with crime the reverse can also be true. Having worked in law enforcement and knowing folks with the NYPD who have worked through the decades seeing first hand the horrible decline of NY from the late 60s through the 80s in terms of crime it is exactly the tactics applied over the last decade which has provided relief. But, not a day goes by where there is not an outcry over the police and how they function. Lets keep isolated incidents in perspective because if operations change from a proactive to reactive stance then the crime rate will once again soar. Despite murders being at a 45 year or so low it still does not bring back the other quality of life aspects that existed in my old neighborhood back then, but I am happy for those who remain in that fear and violence is the most destructive aspect for a neighborhood and was a major motivator for the mass exodus of NY'ers from the 70s thru the 80s. As far as gangs go I recommed folks read up on MS-13 which is spreading like a cancer throughout the US. The wannabe local trash gang bangers can be a nuisance and somewhat dangerous, but the MS-13 is the real deal and they are expanding. As far as Vermont goes it is critical to make sure that not any gang, drug, weapon offenses are tolerated to ensure that not even a limited foothold or presence takes place here. Yes, it is expensive to lock them up or keep the pressure on to keep them out, but the alternative will be much more expensive in all aspects. As one poster earlier mentioned, denial is a major factor. This is so true! Where I worked before retiring denial from all levels allowed gangs to enter and slowly proliferate and it did not have to be that way, but now the city is paying the price.

[GypsySoul22]

I hope they contain the trash so we don't have these sort of problems. Anyone familiar with Long Island knows how it has changed in the last 20 or so years since more people moved in from NYC. The problems that you see in Manhattan and Queens and the Bronx and Brooklyn (crime & gangs, trouble with illegals) have had a negative impact on the quality of life on Long Island.
It's why so many of us have moved on.

Maybe we won't see it so much here because of the 'lack of minorities' right now in the population. I don't mean to sound racist. I am sure there are many White gangs but the ones I am familiar with are usually 'minority run.'