[mrsross1987]

Anyone who thinks Vermont is "special" to live in, (see the Monaco comment) needs to have their head examined. Yes, I'll compare a place where half the population doesn't work or is on welfare, where its winter for eight months of the year, with twenty below zero temps. Where you'll spend a quarter of what you earn just for heating costs to MONACO. Vermont is special alright. It's e-special-ly crappy

[cgregor]

Vermont state motto (cribbed from North Dakota): "Twenty below keeps out the riff-raff." Hope you enjoy living where you are.

[tobin12]

I am a resident of Vermont of over 25yrs.
It's true, the taxes are very punishing and there is currently a movement to try to address this. There is currently a movement here called Campaign for Vermont that is making a good case to revisit these issues. Our little town of Saint Albans has recently built a parking garage and a new federal building attached and will be building a new hotel in the Downtown right next to it. I believe there is a plan to redirect traffic around the Main St so it can be a walking only plaza.
Some are excited about the changes, however, the poor here are growing and the big problem is the kids don't see a future here. Let me explain.
People stay in positions much longer than you can imagine and there is no need to expand upper job positions as we are a small place. The kids are smart and see this. They create an entry level job but unless you leave, there will not be a way for you to grow and afford what it takes to continue on here. That seems to be the hidden reason for why Vermont is such an old population.
None of my children have chosen to stay here. I am not alone in this. Since we have a good relationship with them will are already making our exit strategy within the next 4yrs. It's just such a challenge to find help with small property things that as you get older you really need just an extra hand with getting it done.
We moved here in 1989 and work with a semi-conductor company. My husband moved into the ONLY mgmnt position ever created in 1997. Should he leave there is a possibility the company won't promote anyone on site. This happens in many companies here not just his.

[cgregor]

Some good points, tobin12.

I'd be very wary of the outfit people call "Campaign for Vermont." Its actual name, which it obscures, is Campaign for Vermont Prosperity. If you know anything about Americans for Prosperity, you probably understand why CFVP would want to hide the last word. Its main founder, Bruce Lisman, was a very high-level Bear Stearns executive-- undoubtedly knowledgable about just what BS was doing to help Wall Street destroy the economy-- and is now perhaps trying to expiate his participation in that decades-long greed-driven and unpunished behavior by trying to do something nice for Vermont. Unfortunately, as his life experience has been to do just the opposite for pension funds, smallholder investors and state treasurers, I don't think we can trust CFVP to do anything other than maximize private profit at the expense of the general public. I hope I will be proven wrong, but haven’t seen evidence yet to the contrary.

Any young person worth his/her salt will do well to leave Vermont, spend a few years in the bigger world, round off one's childhood education by observing other values and norms, and coming back to improve the social mix. As "Precision Valley," Springfield's leadership was directly affected by the cycles in the machine tool industry. Upswings would cause an influx of middle- and upper-management types who added fresh air and fresh blood to the town's boards and commissions. It was the locals who did what they could to prevent improvement-- one cabal effectively returned the school system to the educational Stone Age by railroading a superb director out of town.

I think the biggest problem I have noticed in Vermont is that a lot of people have very constrained horizons— we all have the day-to-day problems of family, income, food, shelter, etc., but I despair at the number who don’t have hopes, who really don’t seem to have an answer for “Where would you like to see yourself and what would you like to be doing ten years from now? What would you like for your grandchildren that you don't have?” If I were to limit myself to their company, I’d drown. And if I weren't part of a mini-community of Vermonters who can imagine a better town, a better state and a better future for their grandchildren, I’d leave the state.

[ALDT]

Thank you for the great input. From my perspective (I know other folks have different ways of viewing life than me and that is fine) the high property taxes & high income taxes in Vermont, particularly around the Upper Valley, seem like a poor decision. I imagine there are many professionals drawing income from the Lebanon/Hanover area who would reside in VT if it wasn't for the tax rates. I certainly would. At some point the proponents of the high taxes in VT who say the services are worth it and those that disagree should move or stay out, will need to consider what will happen if enough folks in the 8%+ tax brackets do move.

[Sierrajeff]

I think NH and VT are like "A Tale of Two Cities" - each has its own approach, which has its own plusses and minuses.

I think there's a lot of merit to Vermont's policies in general - when I travel across the New York/Vermont border, I'm always struck by the differences between towns (and even upkeep of individual homes) that so are similarly situated, with just a state line between them. I think there's less difference beween New Hampsire & Vermont as you cross that border, at least from the Upper Valley south - but I can't say whether that's due to successful NH policies, or the impact of Dartmouth College & medical center, and the increasing proximity to Boston and NYC (and hence vacation $$).

And part of the complication in the analysis is that if you live near the NH/VT border, you can benefit (to a degree) from the best of both worlds - e.g. you can live in lower-tax NH, with lots of nearby stores, yet also can drive around billboard-free Vermont, with better preserved farmlands and reduced sprawl thanks to Act 250. i.e, if Vermont didn't exist, would NH's economic policies seem as successful? If NH didn't exist, would Vermont's economic policies look so unsuccessful?

All that said, when I read about proposals for yet more taxes, such as this additional payroll tax, even I have to shake my head in disbelief!

[cgregor]

Taxes are the price one pays for civilization. I'm for 'em.

[n1ey]

Originally Posted by joe moving

Keep in mind, VT tax (from my experience...) is based on federal taxable income minus some exclusions- so it may not be as much as you think unless 250k is your federal taxable income.

You also get 10% tax credit on state tax for 529 contributions to VHEIP up to $10,000 contribution or $1k tax credit. That is, a $10k contribution = $1k tax credit (I think).

The fellow knows the math! The Vermont taxation scheme takes more out of the rich than the scheme in Massachusetts. The property tax on your large-scale house in Massachusetts costs less and you pay less income tax.

Try a nice cosy spot in the Berkshires. Some spots are so remote that you need to travel out of state in order to find a supermarket.

Bill

[domc]

You can crunch all the numbers you want but you won't find out how good or bad a place is for taxes until you actually live in a few places around the country to know. Comparing taxes from state to state is not the best and states that have no income taxes is just a sales pitch.