[geomollyj]

Hello All,

Thank you for taking time to entertain this thread! My wife and I are preparing for the next phase of our life. Recently married, I am from Kentucky. My Molly is from the GreenBay, WI area. I am retiring from a moderate size police department as a captain. I will start receiving a moderate size retirement with insurance shortly, so money is a concern but we should be able to survive if we live conservatively. She had a degree in landscape architecture and is really good at major event planning and of course landscape architecture, gardening, and raising Johnson American Bulldogs along with rare and heritage breed chickens.

We are pretty moderate, yet somewhat liberal in lifestyle and association choices. We love the outdoors, independence, nature, crafts, arts, solitude, literature, and raising farm animals...etc. Vermont came to the forefront of choices after Molly's sister wrote several fictional books about characters that live in Vermont. Let me qualify this by saying a lot of research went into the books about geographical information, demographics, etc. Additional the books have registered on the NYTimes Best Seller Lists

At any rate, a part time job is not out of the question, working at a hardware store, part time police officer, conservation officer, snow plow driver (I have CDL), etc. We would really love to have a small mini-farm around 10+acres and frequent farmers markets with honey and veggies from the garden.

Our child is in college so we don't have the concern of education. We are close to debt free, so modest accommodations should not pose a concern.

The majority of my concern is being able to assimilate into a community. In my research i discovered that I will be "flatlander."

From your experience do you get the feeling it will work? I really appreciate some honest thoughts. Thank you so much. Please be safe and I wish all of you the best.

MandG.

[cgregor]

Two-thirds of the people living in Vermont are either "flatlanders" or their children. Anybody who tags you with that is either a lout or just being funny-- and the natives aren't louts. Don't worry about it.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by cgregor

Two-thirds of the people living in Vermont are either "flatlanders" or their children. Anybody who tags you with that is either a lout or just being funny-- and the natives aren't louts. Don't worry about it.

51.2 percent of residents were born in VT according to the census bureau: American FactFinder - Results

Some will be children of flatlanders but I'm not sure any stats exist that can verify the 2/3 number you cite. I would expect that 2/3 figure to be accurate in a place like Chittenden County but not at all true in, say, Essex County. Young people flee the state in droves because of the lack of opportunity.

Now about the flatlander thing: people who come and want to force their ways onto us will be called flatlanders in a non-friendly sort of way (i.e., those like the leader of Bloomberg's anti-gun group in VT and its supporters, the people who push to outlaw hunting, trapping, post land, etc.). It's usually meant in a joking sort of way for anyone else.

[arctichomesteader]

To the OP: I would look carefully at property taxes, they are bad throughout the state, but especially brutal in certain towns that like to spend money. Look for a town that is not on the radar of most tourists and which is more conservative with its spending or on a fixed income you could be in a tight situation financially later.

[CatwomanofV]

As others have said, there are so many of us flatlanders around. (Yup-I am one, too.) Being a flatlander is nothing to worry about.


A few things to think about before moving to this beautiful state:

1. Winters. Yes, it is beautiful but it can get downright COLD!!! Last year was a brutal winter with -15 degrees days.

2. Heating. With our winters heating can be a major expense-whether it be oil, natural gas, wood pellets, etc. Just something to keep in mind.

3. Property taxes. Vermont is notorious for its high taxes.


If you think you can handle these things, then I think you will fit right in.



Cat

[arctichomesteader]

I recall there were days with wind chills in the minus 40's, almost minus 50, in Essex County last winter. I went hunting on days when it was -30 in the mountains in Rutland County. Southern VT and the Champlain Valley will have the mildest weather, but it's not "mild" by most people's standards. It's still cold when it's zero degrees or ten degrees, but that's a bit warmer than -20 or -30. Some people just get acclimated to it, others never get used to it and stay inside and get cabin fever.

[cgregor]

So many "flatlanders" had flooded the state by the late 70's it was common knowledge that two-thirds of the population was immigrant. So, at least two-thirds of today's "native Vermonters" are children of flatlanders, hardly likely to tag anybody a flatlander except in fun. It is extremely unlikely more than a handful of them were raised with the values learned by fifth- and sixth generation Vermont children, so they can hardly use the term in opprobrium without a marked degree of insincerity.

I believe that the term started in Vermont as a result of Al Capp's comic strip, "Li'l Abner," which used the term to denote the non-bumpkins who showed up in Dogpatch. Consequently the adoption of the term in Vermont was unconsciously masochistic, much like the use of the term "teabagger," which today's "strict constitutionalists" proudly used to describe themselves as members of the Tea Party for about six weeks.

[arctichomesteader]

The influx was significant but not as large as you are suggesting. In 1960 it was 76 percent of residents were born here. In 1990 it was 59 percent. It was really the reverse of the number you gave in the 1970's. The hippies were a minority in the 1970's that many VT'ers assumed they could simply ignore. That influx between the hippies and later in the 1980's and onward other groups had a major negative impact on the state's future (in terms of job availability, taxes, cost of real estate, etc.) but the numbers just aren't what you suggest. The percentages also vary widely from one part of the state to the other. Chittenden County and the Northeast Kingdom are essentially polar opposites, for example.

The term flatlander pre-dates the 1960's influx of hippies and that comic strip about the south (not even VT) significantly. The woodchuck term is more recent and originated as an insult against Vermonters by the flatlander crowd.

[BerkMTB]

Hey consider Berkshire County in Western MA. A lot of the same things you might be looking for in VT but a wee bit warmer and cheaper to live (at least the northern portion of county).

[cgregor]

Vermont is not really all that cold any more; climate change seems to have already made a difference. Thirty-five years ago the first frost came within a couple of weeks of Labor Day and three weeks of sub-zero weather was standard at the end of January. the "January thaw" was usually in the high forties. Within the last five years or so, a week or less of sub-zero daytimes has been pretty standard in the southern regions, and the January thaws have been as high as 65. However, we still seem to be getting snowfalls (even though they do melt faster) in early spring-- mid-April. It tends to make the Berkshires more attractive...