[Goa]

Some background:
I was born in South Africa 35 years ago. "Back in the days" things were quite different and since 1994, many things have changed - for the worse. I don't know how many of you are aware of South Africa's current political status, but all I can say the future for most of us are grim and being of European descent makes it even worse.

We are planning to make a more permanent move to Vermont. We've been to different places in the US, but Vermont surely ranks number one on our list. We have 3 children, and enjoy everything Vermont has to offer. One of my biggest concerns were our safety. (Certain parts in South Africa is extremely crime invested. You get mugged, robbed, murdered, raped, high-jacked any place at any time. In Gauteng Province (State) home-owners take extreme security precautions. Properties are electric fenced, gated, armed response, safety gates, burglar bars, spiked with metal, glass, razor wire on their walls. The irony is that some criminals still manage to get inside during day time, it's better for them, because they can assault you for your pin-code to gain access to your bank account or security safe.
We read about elderly who gets murdered for a few rands (dollars). My grandmother was murdered in her home at age 76 - 14 years ago. My mother still has nightmares about what possibly could have happened.)

Presently we are in Stowe, and ideally I would love to be somewhere in a non-tourist town. Stowe is really magnificent, but I am most certain there's more Stowe-like towns out there - minus the "touristy" vibe. I speak English with an European accent, thus I get looked upon as a tourist and treated the same way - in Stowe. I don't like it. I want to feel part of Vermont. Please give me some advice on 1. Where is similar towns like Stowe? and 2. What can I do to meet real Vermonters, who will except me for who I am. Not look at me as if I am some alien from Mars, when they hear I am from South Africa. Maybe it's only a Stowe thing, because in Morrisville and Cambridge for example it's quite different.

Thanks for your time.

[MRVphotog]

Vermont is nothing like South Africa, matter of fact IMHO there are no places on the planet like South Africa in that it has a very unique history in the last 30 years.

Secondly, if tourist towns treated tourists as you describe they wouldn't be tourist towns very long. People visit Vermont for many reasons and one of them is that they are treated with respect and a level of friendliness that's unique. I speak to tourists everday and that's why they say they come here.

The first place most would suggest would be Burlington since it's the "big" city of Vermont. More cosmopolitan and diverse. I think many people from out of state assume most Vermonters, especially in the smaller communities are a bunch of hicks but IMHO that's not true at all.

My experience is that Vermonters do not prejudge people like in other places I have lived. Even in the smallest towns. We have a few Vermont haters here who do not agree with the above accessment but that's what my experiences have been.

I live on a quiet unassuming dirt road but one neighbor is a former major league pitcher and another is a retired CEO of a Fortune 500 company but you would never know it talking to them in the post office. That's what is so cool about Vermont. My boss at work is a former COB of Merrill Lynch.

What are your preferences? Everyone who posts that they would like to move to Vermont want good schools for their kids. I mean, who doesn't. No one posts..." I am thinking of moving to Vermont, looking for bad schools"...:lol:

Are you looking for a small town or perhaps a small city like Montpelier or Bratt? The obvious tourist towns to avoid would be places like Wilmington, Ludlow, Manchester and Stowe. We have plenty of tourists here in the MRV but it's nothing like Stowe. In the summer the MRV is pretty mellow while Stowe during a summer weekend can be very busy.

Since your in Vermont I think you have a great opportunity to visit other parts of Vermont and see for yourself. I really don't know what you mean when you said you feel like an "alien". Is it possible that your perhaps misunderstanding the interaction, at least some of the time.

It takes time for people to get to know you and since your from another country I think you have to realize that and have some patience. This is not a Vermont thing, it's a people thing.

[skytrekker]

MRV gave great advice

Vermont and all of New England has a crime rate well below the national US average-and New England is the safest region to live nationally.

Some of my favorite towns are Montpelier, Middlebury, Woodstock, Brattleboro and just over the New Hampshire state line of the Connecticut river, Hanover.

Good luck.

[GypsySoul22]

Good luck in coming to Vermont. Maybe it will warm up enough for a 'braa' by July or August!

I have a very good friend I met on another forum who is from South Africa and what she tells me about life there is very shocking. One day I sent her a photo (back when I lived in NY) of a snow storm we had there last year or the winter before because snow is a novelty for her. Anyhow, she said something like, "Wow, you don't have bars on your windows..!" (Again I lived outside NY where were also getting 'home invasions' every few days around the area..that is a major reason we also wanted to move.)

My husband is British born and part of living in the USA is getting adjusted to 'being from another place' when you move here. However, if you live in a place used to 'outsiders' and foreigners and where they are more open minded (New England/Northeast for example) you should not have any problems. Try not to be too worried about 'what people think.' I lived in England for a time and felt 'weird' every time I opened my mouth. People get used to accents and if they treat you wrongly, either tell them or 'refuse to deal with them.'

No one with half a brain is going to care where you are from. Seriously.

If we can help more, ask.

[Sherylcatmom]

Goa, you and your family have survived so much. I hope you will find the peaceful, non-touristy Vermont town you seek and eventually feel that you are home.

Montpelier has more international presence/awareness than most small towns because it is the capital. Brattleboro has the School for International Training, which attracts people from diverse interests and cultures. I don't find Montpelier or Brattleboro particularly touristy.

As a white middle-class American, I really can't know what it's like to be "different" in Vermont, or how I might get treated if I were. There might always be people who react to those who speak with an accent other than their own, or who have skin of a different color, or who possess other differences that people might notice. It may even be a positive reaction, such as a desire to interact with someone noticeably different from themselves. But it's still a reaction; I imagine that the people pegged as "different" would notice such reactions every time.

I think that most people are not blind to differences, especially in Vermont where there's relatively little visible diversity. (By contrast, I'm from Miami, where almost nothing turns people's heads.) My hope is that you will find that, even if you are noticed as "different," you still will be as warmly welcomed as anyone. Warmth being a relative term in Vermont. :-)

[goatwoodward]

My boyfriend moved to Burlington from England last March & loves it. He's learning how to ski and we BBQ'ed & swam at the beach at Oakledge Park (on Lake Champlain) throughout the summer.

Be prepared for the cold & wet though - he had hiked up a mountain in Morocco, but didn't expect to need the same sort of gear on a daily basis here. (Warm, waterproof boots & gloves are especially important.)

All his coworkers except one are Aussie or British as well, so accents all around. They do get some questions about their accents (many people can't tell the difference between British vs. South African vs. Aussie accents), but the questions seem to be used to start conversations rather than to suss out an outsider. Burlington does get some tourists, but they seem to be mainly leaf-peepers from the rest of the US & the Quebecois, though there have been more European tourists lately, taking advantage of the weak dollar (but nowhere near as many as Stowe or another tourist town).

[southernnaturelover]

Goa, I have been reading stories about the problems in S.Africa for awhile now. I find it amazing how white farmers there are having their land taken away from them by the government, not to mention the risk of being assaulted or murdered. I have watched several videos on YouTube about the problem and it looks absolutely horrific. Are there many people there trying to come to the US? I think just about any region of the US will be a vast improvement over what you are experiencing now. Good luck to you, I'm sure you will be much happier here.

[southernnaturelover]

I'm sorry, I see now that the poster is already in the US.

[chaz longue]

Goa -

I see you've had some terrific responses above, as usual

Stowe's a lovely place, but like most resort communities it's not as easy to live there as it is to visit. I might be able to suggest other towns to look at if I knew exactly what appeals to you about Stowe...

I live in and love Burlington. It offers me everything I need, (arts and culture, the lake, proximity to Montreal, Boston and NYC as well as the more rural areas of VT) and it's not possible to get bored here. Half of my neighbors don't bother to lock thier doors. There's crime here, but it gets people talking because it's relatively unusual.

There are all sorts of nice towns in Northwest VT, which allow easy access to the arts and culture of Burlington, (and the gigantic regional medical center, the colleges and universities, the recreation, etc) but a more rural feel. Most have good schools, as does Burlington. Here's the best place I know of to explore them:
Vermont Department of Education School Report

Please let me know if I can give you more specific information about housing, specific towns to explore, (have you looked at Waterbury? Richmond? Cambridge/Jeffersonville?, Williston?) or area amenities - like everybody here at City Data, I'm glad to help.

David Beckett

[skytrekker]

We have someone moving to Connecticut (forum )also from SA-Capetown- popular are we or not in New England.