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There are many ‘anti-cult’ sites ([URL="http://www.rickross.com/groups/tribes.html"]Rick Ross Twelve Tribes resources[/URL], [URL="http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/"]Twelve Tribes-EX[/URL]) that attack the [URL="http://www.twelvetribes.com/"]Twelve Tribes[/URL] for being a cult. Their claims often attack positions the Twelve Tribes takes on discipline, lifestyle and Biblical authority. I’ve had a couple people request feedback from my stay at the Twelve Tribes commune in Vista, and whether I believe they are a ‘cult’.
First, I want to say that my experience there greatly impacted me. I was blown-away that a community of people were willing to ‘give it all away’ so that they would share all their life’s resources. At the start of each day, the community gathers in a covenant reminder that they will ‘die to themselves’ and love one another. Much of the bad press towards the Twelve Tribes isn’t so much an attack on their community but on them living out what the Bible commands. You may be surprised I say that. Well I do need to say my experience was not exhaustive, so I did not get to see how (method) they lived out these beliefs (principles). But they do seek to base their principles on the Bible. For this, most of American modern Christianity will want to reject what they are doing. The price is far too great for us to give up our worldly possessions and consumer mentality. Many of us our too deeply entrenched in the American-brand of Christianity that fits our lifestyle easily.
Here is where I would differ with the Twelve Tribes and warn people about deciding to join their community.
1. They believe that in order to be saved, you must accept Jesus and move in to a Twelve Tribes community. They mix justification with sanctification. I asked several questions to determine what they meant. First, I asked, if a person came to the same convictions and were not in an area where the Twelve Tribes had a community, would they be saved. Second, if a person came to the convictions and decided to move to a Twelve Tribes community but died before they got there, would these people be saved? An elder at the Vista location could not say ‘yes’ to these scenarios.
2. Three different people stated that from after the book of James was written until 1970, there is no evidence of true Christians in this (roughly) 1,900 year period.
3. They believe there is no room for disagreement with their doctrine. Those who disagree are considered rebelling against God’s bride, the church. There ‘doctrine’ is the interpretation of scripture based on Eugene Sprigg’s (and other leaders?) interpretation.
4. There is an element of sectarian us/them with the world. Don’t catch sin like the ebola virus out there in the evil world. People only work for the Tribes, they see the ‘world’ as being the evil system rather than a place where they work side-by-side with non-believers and live out the gospel.
5. An elder told me that John Calvin was ‘under a spirit of evil’ when he interpreted scripture. He said that the modern (false) church has been under his influence ever since.
6. They believe that all professed Christians that are not apart of their community are no different than atheists.
It is because of these stances that I would not encourage people to get involved in their community. I say this with sadness because so much of their life seems more Christian in substance than my life and the church-communities I see...
STAY AWAY FROM THIS. Ask a twelve tribe member, his or her real name. Also ask them.. If I sell everything I own, and on the way to the community, I die, what happens to me, or my soul? This cult is very scary, and I know a former member of one of their communities.. and wow.. it's nothing I would ever wish on anyone.
Back in the mid 90s i was teaching school in the central american country of Honduras. there i met members of the Twelve Tribes(called the community). they baked wonderful whole wheat bread for the markets-when we only had tortillas and very bad white bread. we befriended each other, though I am a born again, fundamentalist christian and we didnt quite share the same doctrines or views. But they were very welcoming and kind and nice and invited me and friends to their house for dinner and conversation. they respected my beliefs and I respected their rights to theirs. we never had a coarse word(my family are missionaries there-but we didnt try and convert them).
i ran into them a few years later back in the states-upstate NY, selling soaps at a crafts fair. still as kind and nice as they could be.
I am African American and I never once was treated as a second class citizen by the Tribe. so i dont know where the Racism charge came from. they have their right to believe as they choose(freedom of conscience just as any secular group or other religious group does). I dined and hung out with them many times and I never once saw Sexism either-so again, not sure what people are saying.
I wouldnt join them as i dont agree with their theology, but i cant say they are a cult group/ people were allowed to come as go as they pleased and no one was held against their will
also, saying they Homeschool as if that were a crime--lots of people, conservative christians, leftist hippies, and mainstream Americans Homeschool and Unschool and alternative school their children. So that is just an intellectually dishonest attack on these people.
Financially, the shepherds live better than "the sheep." Makes sense right? Shepherds and sheep. Overseers of the community, shepherds possess credit cards, own cars, and control the money. They can buy food, purchase gifts for their wives and children, and take frequent trips. In contrast, the dumb sheep wash piles of dirty dishes, clean the toilets and wash the clothes. While most tribal women have few if any pictures to enjoy, Prisca, the wife of "Aquilla the Gorilla" owns and enjoys an expensive camera. Shepherd Al Jayne is fond of buying new higher-grade tools for his sons. His oldest son Nehemiah drives his own van and owns expensive musical instruments. Jesus said, "If you want to be the greatest, you must be the slave of all." What did Yahshua say? "Disciples wash dishes." Shepherds and their children do not. When I once hinted that Al Jayne's boys never washed dishes, their mother responded with "you never sing songs or tell stories to my teenage sons while washing dishes." A clear double standard prevails in the tribes. I think you call it a clergy-laity division.
These folks run a hostel in Rutland where Appalachian Trail and Long Trail hikers can spend the night for a very small donation. It has quite a good reputation in the thru hiker community and Rutland benefits with many hikers making a town stop. Years ago those hikers would maybe stop at the Long Trail Inn on Rt 4 for a meal and continue on.
During our stay in Rutland we ate there quite often and my Wife
developed a friendship with them. To us, they seemed more
Amish than 'Cult'. I know the restaurant was the best eating in
Rutland. Our first New Years Eve was spent there drinking coffee,
Mate's and listening to some wild celtic Lucky Charms music. Very Nice.
One of my more pleasant memories of Rutland. I noticed the women/
girls get pregnant at a very early age and it was claimed that they got
really screwed over by the local government when it was found out that a
member was abusing children. Instead of dealing with the perp, himself,
they disbanded the 'Tribe' and took kids away from their parents and did
other unnecessarily overreaching stuff. This is only what was imparted
upon us by people close to them.
Regardless, I have to appreciate people who live simply and treat other
people respectfully. I think anyone who can stick it out in Vermont
long term might be a little closer to the "tribe" in some ways than they
think
14 or so years ago …. Yadutan was approached somewhat aggressively by Ha-emeq when he was a very young disciple in the church. Ha-emeq made sexual advances towards him. He was in a very uncomfortable position, being “hit on” by the leaders wife. This was happening during the time when the morning and evening sacrifices were being established and taught about on daily basis. For those of you who remember or have heard those teachings since then, you can appreciate the enormity of what went on between Yadutan and Ha-emeq. There were times when she would grab him by the belt loop or hold his hand while they were walking.
There were times when they were traveling on their bus that she would slip her hands under his bed covers and hold his hand at night. One night she approached him from behind on the beach and wrapped her arms around him in an embrace.
Eventually he gave in to the temptation and BECAME INVOLVED IN A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HA-EMEQ.. No, the did not have intercourse, or oral sex, but they did everything else. They would passionately kiss, they would be stripped down to their underwear, lying on top of one another. The would masturbate one another. They would go to the newly established gatherings unclean, minutes after being together. She would hold his hand during breaking of bread. They would have had intercourse but at one point or another one of them would stop the other. I understand that this is not pleasant or even dignified to have to read these things, but I don’t know any other way of getting my point across. I have sat in many meetings judging people for doing much less than what these two people participated in. I have seen families torn apart because of judgments that have come from Yoneq over youth who have held hands or kissed. I have heard and taught on the utter wickedness of going to breaking of bread and minchot over and over again with unconfessed sin much less serious in nature than what I speak of today. Yadutan is not “blaming” Ha-emeq as being the only guilty one for what occurred, but he was terribly confused and upset in his conscience about what they had fallen into. He encouraged her to stop on several occasions but she did not want to, and so they continued in their weakness. THIS CONTINUED FOR A YEAR OR SO until Yoneq and Ha-emeq left Brazil. At this point Yadutan was able to clear his head and wrote Ha-emeq telling her that they must confess and repent and get forgiven no matter the cost. He told her she must expose it to Yoneq or he would have to do it! Ha-emeq wrote back saying it was ok, all was forgiven.
Yadutan continued under the impression Ha-emeq had exposed herself.
Years later, it is uncovered that Ha-emeq had NEVER TOLD THE TRUTH.
14 or so years ago …. Yadutan was approached somewhat aggressively by Ha-emeq Marsha Spriggs)when he was a very young disciple in the church. Ha-emeq made sexual advances towards him. He was in a very uncomfortable position, being “hit on” by the leaders wife. This was happening during the time when the morning and evening sacrifices were being established and taught about on daily basis. For those of you who remember or have heard those teachings since then, you can appreciate the enormity of what went on between Yadutan and Ha-emeq. There were times when she would grab him by the belt loop or hold his hand while they were walking.
There were times when they were traveling on their bus that she would slip her hands under his bed covers and hold his hand at night. One night she approached him from behind on the beach and wrapped her arms around him in an embrace.
Eventually he gave in to the temptation and BECAME INVOLVED IN A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HA-EMEQ.. No, the did not have intercourse, or oral sex, but they did everything else. They would passionately kiss, they would be stripped down to their underwear, lying on top of one another. The would masturbate one another. They would go to the newly established gatherings unclean, minutes after being together. She would hold his hand during breaking of bread. They would have had intercourse but at one point or another one of them would stop the other. I understand that this is not pleasant or even dignified to have to read these things, but I don’t know any other way of getting my point across. I have sat in many meetings judging people for doing much less than what these two people participated in. I have seen families torn apart because of judgments that have come from Yoneq over youth who have held hands or kissed. I have heard and taught on the utter wickedness of going to breaking of bread and minchot over and over again with unconfessed sin much less serious in nature than what I speak of today. Yadutan is not “blaming” Ha-emeq as being the only guilty one for what occurred, but he was terribly confused and upset in his conscience about what they had fallen into. He encouraged her to stop on several occasions but she did not want to, and so they continued in their weakness. THIS CONTINUED FOR A YEAR OR SO until Yoneq and Ha-emeq left Brazil. At this point Yadutan was able to clear his head and wrote Ha-emeq telling her that they must confess and repent and get forgiven no matter the cost. He told her she must expose it to Yoneq or he would have to do it! Ha-emeq wrote back saying it was ok, all was forgiven.
Yadutan continued under the impression Ha-emeq had exposed herself.
Years later, it is uncovered that Ha-emeq had NEVER TOLD THE TRUTH.
Yadutan's affair with Ha-emeq (Marsha Spriggs) part 2
She has continued on in her role judging and mentoring, representing God on the earth, and whatever else you might describe her role to be, with a very very bad conscience the whole time.
When Yadutan began to see that the tribes were “falling apart” on so many levels , he began to consider the problems , why they never get fixed and the hypocrisy that had risen to the sky.
He called for a meeting with Yoneq. He confessed to his own wife what had happened before they had met, and they went to Hiddenite to have the big meeting. When he got there he was met with what he felt was an attempt to sweep it all under the rug . Yoneq said that he had just recently learned about the whole matter. He questioned them both concerning what had happened and then he forgave them both, and he told them that our Father forgave them! That’s it!
Yadutan wondered why there was no body meeting , discipline, nothing! How could a husband judge his own wife like this with no counsel? Others had been sent away for years , forced to marry, or worse, over less! Should Yacob and Qetsiayah know about this, after suffering over what their daughters went through for committing sins of a far less serious nature? Should Hur know about how Ha-emeq was judged for 14 YEARS of deceit after seeing his boys judged for sins far less serious. The list could go on for quite some time. Should all those cooks meetings be disregarded because Ha- emeq was “in the flesh” when she taught and led them? THE IMPLICATIONS ARE FAR REACHING! Think about it…. And what about Yoneq’s response? How many times I have sat and waited to hear from Yoneq concerning our Father’s judgment for someone, whether they should be sent away from the body or not. And this was only after several kahals and fact finding meetings. All the while, those who committed the sins are being held in custody.
He was asked time and again to be discreet and just forgive and “have wisdom and conceal the matter” Scriptures were sent to him encouraging him to keep the matter to himself. Yadutan was unable to obtain a good conscience this way and all his experience in the tribes was now in doubt for him and his wife. Even his own position seemed fraudulent to him as he felt “bought” so to speak. He insisted more men be brought in and so Yoneq agreed and told Nahaliel and Nun.
After expressing their grave concern with the seriousness of the matter, investigating, and finding the whole story to be exactly true as Yadutan had described in lurid detail, they both began a letter writing campaign to get Yadutan to just “move on” in the tribes. Yadutan was increasingly distressed by these “elders” inability to grasp the gravity of this hypocrisy. He wrote to them about “the emperors new clothes”, and the MEN BEHIND THE EMPEROR and the foundations of the community (teachings, tribes, minchahs) being formed all by those who were living a lie while harshly judging others for their lack of purity. He does not feel innocent of all this himself, but when he tried to do the right thing , he saw that it wasn’t really in the hearts of the leaders to deal fairly with the truth but to hide it in order to continue their charade. I have had a lot to do with many people joining or remaining in the tribes. I feel for conscience sake, they are all deserving of the truth and deserve to know ALL the information that I now have and also to know why Yadutan and his wife had to leave.
This is just a very brief version of a much deeper and more involved story.
Please everyone know that Yadutan and his wife Emunah loved and gave their lives to the building of the community, as did my wife and I, but I can not stand by while my friends unwittingly go on trusting their lives, believing that they are building on something solid. My faith has been undermined by the reality of what the twelve tribes has really become! I did not easily come to these decisions.
It has been very painful for everyone involved and I know for a fact that Yadutan has no joy in having to live with this. BUT NEVER THE LESS IT IS THE TRUTH. People can try and contact him if they need to know or verify anything.
There are those who will say this is a lie from people who listen to liars, but there pages and pages and pages of emails and letters concerning this matter.
There are those who won’t care anyways and will continue on in the community.
This letter isn’t for those people. This letter is for the people who still care about the truth. For those who have been on the edge, and even for those who haven’t. It’s a wake up call to our friends in the Twelve Tribes.
Financially, the shepherds live better than "the sheep." Makes sense right? Shepherds and sheep. Overseers of the community, shepherds possess credit cards, own cars, and control the money. They can buy food, purchase gifts for their wives and children, and take frequent trips. In contrast, the dumb sheep wash piles of dirty dishes, clean the toilets and wash the clothes. While most tribal women have few if any pictures to enjoy, Prisca, the wife of "Aquilla the Gorilla" owns and enjoys an expensive camera. Shepherd Al Jayne is fond of buying new higher-grade tools for his sons. His oldest son Nehemiah drives his own van and owns expensive musical instruments. Jesus said, "If you want to be the greatest, you must be the slave of all." What did Yahshua say? "Disciples wash dishes." Shepherds and their children do not. When I once hinted that Al Jayne's boys never washed dishes, their mother responded with "you never sing songs or tell stories to my teenage sons while washing dishes." A clear double standard prevails in the tribes. I think you call it a clergy-laity division.
You are so right, Jack! But you have it backwards, I mean who the clergy are and who the laity are. Who came to serve?
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twelve tribes
