Is Virginia a Northern or Southern state? (Richmond, Alexandria: association, maps)

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Maryland ain't southern.

It wasn't southern in the war for states rights. It wasn't even represented on the battle flag.

Even the native people of Maryland are not very southern. It's not just transplants.

Maryland was a central colony, and is now a northern state. The Mason Dixon is tired, misunderstood, and not a proper north/south border.

Your opinion does not Breed Facts......

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

Your opinion does not Breed Facts......

Actually, he doesn't give an opinion when he says Maryland wasn't on the side for states' rights and wasn't represented on the Confederate battle flag. Those ARE facts.

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by Slyman11

I am 30 years old and was born in Maryland, lived in the DC area my entire life. Don't tell me what southern is and not, transplants washing away southern culture doesn't change what this region is.

Originally Posted by stlouisan

I'll tell you whatever I want. Transplants? That's a good one. The only possible transplants Maryland could have had were from neighboring states less than 50 miles away...those are hardly what I'd call transplants. There is no southern dialect in maryland, the state is not politically or culturally southern, etc. Maryland is not like Florida. My uncle has lived in Maryland since the late 1960's, so I think it's safe to say he knows more of what he's talking about than you. If you are only 30 years old, DC and Maryland shouldn't seem that southern at all to you unless you live in the far southern parts.

And I will Tell You that you Have NO Authority to dictate against the FACT that MARYLAND IS A SOUTHERN STATE......

Deal With It......

You are not going to tell me or any Natural Born Marylander that My State of Maryland is not Southern when you have not Ever step foot into the state of Maryland..

Judging by your pointless opinionated rants it is safe to say you know nothing about My State of Maryland....

Coming up in here e-thugging, boy please....

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Interesting article and map, but did you really read it? The line was drawn originally to mark the boundaries between Maryland and Pennsylvania, nothing more. Later, it was often used as a reference point to mark the general north/south boundaries between the "slave" and "free" states. That is not quite the same thing as between Union and Confederate, as Maryland and Delaware (both slave states) remained in the Union.

OK... but that does not take away from the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State......

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

I was with you up until this point in bold.

I'm from the southern tier of NY state and I always considered the Midwest to be the sibling of the northeast.

Siblings have differences, they are often two individuals. But they are from the same family.

The Midwest and northeast are the north. The north just doesn't have the same pseudo-mono-culture feeling as the south does.

In fact to bring up some history, the entire Midwest was made into what it is today by the actions of New Yorkers. The Eerie canal allowed the people of the great lakes in the Midwest to settle there more easily and bring an economy out there.

Michigan was settled dominantly by New Yorkers as well. That's why there are so many common names between Michigan and NY. Lansing would be the biggest example.

As far fast paced we have to remember that the bos-wash corridor is entirely coastal once it hits north Jersey. The inland Northeast is dominantly rural and laid back. Parts of NY and PA have much in common with the eastern Midwest.

In other words yes, there are a great many differences, but they are still historically and spiritually connected as the north.

On that note, in support of your argument, there is no blanket northern accent in the same sense as there is a southern one. Maryland speaks midland English dominantly. This is shared with Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, and so forth. These are northern states.

I agree about the settlement patterns, but even so, the Midwest has come to be politically, culturally, and economically much different from most of the Northeast. I never was really sure Western Pennsylvana and New York were 100% Northeastern either. Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Erie, and Pittsburgh I think all have more ties to the Midwest than to the BOS-WASH corridor. I never really felt these cities could be considered Mid-Atlantic are part of New England. Mainly along the Great Lakes and the far western areas are where I'd say things are more Midwestern than Northeastern, or blurry. They all have more in common with Cleveland than with Boston, New York, and Philadelphia, and the rest of those states.

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

First off, there is no such thing as a "northern accent"...it depends on which part you're talking about...the Midwest or Northeast. I didn't say they have northeastern or New England accents, but most do not have southern accents. They either have a mostly general american accent with an occasional southern influence, or general american. You'll find this same dialect in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and southern New Jersey. Looking at any professional linguistics map will tell you most of Maryland does not talk with a southern accent. I guess since you're such a professional, you'd know better. Also, when surveyed by the University of North Carolina, very few native Marylanders identified as Southern. It is the way Richmond is laid back, not just that they are laid back. Richmond has a decidedly Southern culture and mindset. New Hampshire does not. Neither does Maryland. I would not call all of New England laid back either. The entire Bos-Wash corridor is anything but laid back. Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut are not exactly what I would call laid-back states.

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Good rebuttal my friend.

I will however add that western Massachusetts is actually very rural and quite mountainous.

Northwest Connecticut is as well.

OK but Maryland is a Southern State.....

[Diff1]

Baltimore was forced to be with the union 1st of all it was Baltimore citizens that fired on union troops in Maryland do you recall that. And that poll you keep bringing up is flawed its from residents but theres no telling how many of those ppl are not even from Maryland and all that other stuff you rambling about i never even said i know there is diffrent southern, midwestern,western and northern accents. Plus the U.S. Census still to this day classifies Maryland and Delaware as southern so um who do you think im going to believe??

[$mk8795]

Originally Posted by Diff1

Someone getting a lil emotional huh? lol If theres no such thing as a nothern accent even though they are diffrent then why is there a such thing as a southern one?? I said some ppl in Maryland have southern accents and if Maryland is so northern why are there confedarate monuments in Baltimore you wont find that any where else north of Maryland maybe in Gettysburg . Besides Boston the New England is no more fast paced than cities in the south Like Miami, Houston and Atlanta ect.... And i personaly know alot of ppl in Maryland that consider themselves southern.

I have discovered a very long time ago that a lot of Maryland Hating Extremist from the deep south will find every foolish excuse they can come up with to deny the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State......

Its nothing but historic Civil War Bitterness......

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by Diff1

Baltimore was forced to be with the union 1st of all it was Baltimore citizens that fired on union troops in Maryland do you recall that. And that poll you keep bringing up is flawed its from residents but theres no telling how many of those ppl are not even from Maryland and all that other stuff you rambling about i never even said i know there is diffrent southern, midwestern,western and northern accents. Plus the U.S. Census still to this day classifies Maryland and Delaware as southern so um who do you think im going to believe??

Ah, I see, the last defense. Yes, there were some Confederate sympathizers firing on the troop...it wasn't even close to the whole city of Baltimore. Maryland had explicity expressed no interest in seceding, but the government placed it under martial law anyway. Regardless, 25,000 troops fought for the south, 60,000 for the Union. The U.S. Census classifies them as Southern because it doesn't want to mess with the Mason-Dixon line. When you can prove to me for certain that Baltimore and D.C. are in fact like Richmond and not like Philadelphia, then I'll believe you. THis was also a professional survey...you have zero evidence to prove who was sampled and who wasn't. I would highly doubt they would have gotten opinions mostly from people who had moved to the state. if that's the case, I doubt this study ever would've been published.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by $mk8795

I have discovered a very long time ago that a lot of Maryland Hating Extremist from the deep south will find every foolish excuse they can come up with to deny the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State......

Its nothing but historic Civil War Bitterness......

I'm not a Maryland Hating Extremist, nor am I from the Deep South, or even the South for that matter. As to Civil War bitterness...I am only interested in distinguishing fact from fiction.