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It's those comments I have trouble with. That's why I try to understand why someone feels an area is getting worse. Someone just standing on a street corner is not actually committing a crime. Even if they may "look" like they are thugs. And what does a thug look like? For some of us, that's covert language for "more minorities are moving in." So, places don't "look" as safe or "feel" as safe. That's why I ask for statistics.
And just what does a thug look like?
The reason I quoted it was just that, there is no set definition, just the word I chose to use, coulda used riff-raff, ne'er-do-wells or even derelicts.
The only thing I was meaning by that comment in particular, since that is the only thing you singled out, is people looking like they are doing things they shouldn't...in which standing on a street corner with shifty eyes at 11pm is certainly not normal behavior, and in which more of these characters showing up in my area would signify a raise in concern over my area getting worse.
Long white, red or blue logo-less T-shirt that goes down to mid thigh.
Pants or shorts that are baggier than the long shirt and hand down nearly as low.
Shaved Head and/or baseball cap tilted to side
Ratty a$$ tats covering necks, faces, hands, any part of the body not covered by a suit ( I call them job blockers)
bloodshot eyes, tiny little (or blow open) pupils
that wonderful staggering, posturing, tilting, "Hey I hate everything and own this town" posture.
Insert race of your choice into this garb and I call them thugs, low lives, or at best, wannabes. Not what I want to see or expect to see in my neighborhood. We had very few to none of these people from thug culture in our town 5-10 years ago, now it is hard to drive around and not see them. Not a surprise that the crime rate has risen steadily........
And before anyone tries to accuse me of stereotyping or anything like that....I used to work in a wonderful world where Social Services, Criminal Justice, and intimate human interaction all come together, so I don't just assume these people are up to no good, I know there names, their rap sheet, who they hang with, who they procreate with, it is enough to turn even the staunchest Libertarian into a conservative in a few short years.
Measuring someone's propensity to commit crime based on their appearance is actually stereotyping. I'm sure our grandparents can tell us about how kids used to wear blue jeans and white t-shirts with their hats turned backwards as a sign of teenage rebellion. Every kid wasn't necessarily a criminal or up to no good. A lot of these kids you see today dressed like "thugs" with tatts and unkempt hair are unfortunately mimicking their idols in the rap industry and athletics. I mean half the pro basketball and football players have tatts all over their bodies. And how many rap videos have we seen where rappers are wearing baggy jeans and long t-shirts?
Now I never stop long enough to inspect someone eyes to see if they are shifty (lol) But I think we can never judge a person by how they appear to us. That's impossible. Especially when some kids who are in college continue to dress like their idols.
I know that you are just trying to continue a healthy debate on this topic, which I appreciate. I agree with you that it is a form of stereotyping, but we are all guilty of forming prejudices at times, even if it is just in our thoughts. I dont think there is anyone out there that would see someone like westside described and think that the indvidual is an upstanding law-abiding citizen. In our society, it has come to be that if you are law-abiding, and want to be recognized as such, you will present that appearance. I personally am not just talking about kids, I am referring more to grown adults that act and dress this way.
Regardless what you say on here, think about this for a moment. You are driving through an expensve neighborhood in an expensive part of town and you see three youngsters dressed as westside described and constantly looking around over their shoulders as they are peering in through the windows of a dark house at around 2AM. What would be your initial thought? That they locked themselves out of the house? Or that they might be thinking about commiting a crime?
Measuring someone's propensity to commit crime based on their appearance is actually stereotyping. I'm sure our grandparents can tell us about how kids used to wear blue jeans and white t-shirts with their hats turned backwards as a sign of teenage rebellion. Every kid wasn't necessarily a criminal or up to no good. A lot of these kids you see today dressed like "thugs" with tatts and unkempt hair are unfortunately mimicking their idols in the rap industry and athletics. I mean half the pro basketball and football players have tatts all over their bodies. And how many rap videos have we seen where rappers are wearing baggy jeans and long t-shirts?
Now I never stop long enough to inspect someone eyes to see if they are shifty (lol) But I think we can never judge a person by how they appear to us. That's impossible. Especially when some kids who are in college continue to dress like their idols.
It isn't stereotyping when I KNOW THEM. That is the point I am trying to make. I live in a small town with a very low population turnover rate. These thugs I refer to aren't just random people that catch my eye. I look and say "Oh, that is X Johnson, I guess he got out of the can for that assault conviction." "Look over there, those are X Smith's 5 children living with their grandma, who just snitched on her crack dealer boyfriend."
These aren't generalization I am making a bubble, these are real people, real criminals, real lowlifes. I know who they are, where they live, who they associate with, and I know how they present themselves in terms of appearance.
As for the wannabes....pitiful. You know what they say...don't dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want. Anyone that chooses to play dress up like a criminal is probably going to end up as one.
I don't think comparing the thug fashion style to kid's "idols" in sports or rap is very helpful either, as so many of these individuals are lowlifes and criminals as well.
It is a very sad reflection on our society that poor rural youth now identify and mark themselves with the culture of thuggery and ill-gotten gain. Maybe in other parts of the state you have lawyers, doctors, teachers, honor roll students that tat up their necks and wear thug clothes. Around my parts dressing like that is a crystal clear cultural marker that you are not part of decent, law-abiding society and want everyone else to know it.
Last edited by westsideboy; 08-05-2011 at 10:51 AM..
Regardless what you say on here, think about this for a moment. You are driving through an expensve neighborhood in an expensive part of town and you see three youngsters dressed as westside described and constantly looking around over their shoulders as they are peering in through the windows of a dark house at around 2AM. What would be your initial thought? That they locked themselves out of the house? Or that they might be thinking about commiting a crime?
Come on! lol Apples and oranges. What you just described is a far cry from someone standing on a corner in White Oak. lol
To be honest, if they were white and dressed in khaki shorts, flip flops, and polos I'd think they were up to no good as well.
Come on! lol Apples and oranges. What you just described is a far cry from someone standing on a corner in White Oak. lol
To be honest, if they were white and dressed in khaki shorts, flip flops, and polos I'd think they were up to no good as well.
I know, but I'm just trying to make a point as to there being stereotypes for everything. Not necessarily a far cry from someone standning on a corner constantly looking over his shoulders at the same time of night. Even if it was a white kid in khakis and flip flops, most people would think he is up to no good.
Either way, I think we got off track with the intent of this conversation, because I used "more thugs standing on corners" to support my view of how a person would think an area is getting worse. I fully understand youre getting to the point that you rely on statistics of an area to see how it is doing crime-wise, and I tend to use statistics, plus the first person view of how an area is doing. I appreciate the though provoking conversation, but I think our arguements are ones that can't be easily defined and we could go on forever on which is better, so I won't waste anyones time.
One last word from me, I will finish by saying that I grew up in a nice neighborhood in a small townhouse that I moved into in the late 1980s. By the time I moved out in 2000, many more individuals had moved in that meet westsides description. We were really one of only 3 or 4 houses on the 20 house block that had stayed there since we moved in. The feeling I got was that the neighborhood had taken a turn for the worse. Not just because of all of the "thug" look-alikes moving in, but due to how the area started looking. Crime hadnt gotten much worse save for a drug dealer and lab that was started down the street, but I started hearing more obnoxious kids at all hours of the night, there were a few more street fights outside, and a few more houses with piles of rusty cars in their front yard. The crime stats wouldnt tell you anything had changed on my street, but the feeling you got drving down my street in 1990 to 2000 is a whole different world.
I know, but I'm just trying to make a point as to there being stereotypes for everything. Not necessarily a far cry from someone standning on a corner constantly looking over his shoulders at the same time of night. Even if it was a white kid in khakis and flip flops, most people would think he is up to no good.
Either way, I think we got off track with the intent of this conversation, because I used "more thugs standing on corners" to support my view of how a person would think an area is getting worse. I fully understand youre getting to the point that you rely on statistics of an area to see how it is doing crime-wise, and I tend to use statistics, plus the first person view of how an area is doing. I appreciate the though provoking conversation, but I think our arguements are ones that can't be easily defined and we could go on forever on which is better, so I won't waste anyones time.
One last word from me, I will finish by saying that I grew up in a nice neighborhood in a small townhouse that I moved into in the late 1980s. By the time I moved out in 2000, many more individuals had moved in that meet westsides description. We were really one of only 3 or 4 houses on the 20 house block that had stayed there since we moved in. The feeling I got was that the neighborhood had taken a turn for the worse. Not just because of all of the "thug" look-alikes moving in, but due to how the area started looking. Crime hadnt gotten much worse save for a drug dealer and lab that was started down the street, but I started hearing more obnoxious kids at all hours of the night, there were a few more street fights outside, and a few more houses with piles of rusty cars in their front yard. The crime stats wouldnt tell you anything had changed on my street, but the feeling you got drving down my street in 1990 to 2000 is a whole different world.
I do agree that more parents are loosening important boundaries for kids today rather than keeping them tight. More kids today have less respect for authority than they did a few decades ago. I've actually been disrespected many times when trying to clear kids out of the halls in church while service was going on. I mean really.
I just moved offices to one that is on Rt. 29 in Silver Spring by the big auto park. I have driven down the side streets and neighborhoods in that area. These neighborhoods are awesome. One neighborhood in Laurel is completely new with 3,000+ square foot homes, brick-faced townhomes, manicured lawns, and diversity. I saw a grandfather walking with his grandchildren, I saw a dad pushing a stroller down the sidewalk in the neighborhood. These areas are lost on some of the posters here. They say Laurel is bad or "seedy" or they say that Silver Spring is going down hill. I've been working in these areas for more than 5 years. And I ask myself, would I be afraid to live in these neighborhoods? Of course not.
So I'm sorry if I find fault with those who just throw out the whole town and not give facts about why I should avoid such areas when in fact, seen with my own naked eye and experience on a day-to-day basis, nothing appears inherently dangerous about the place.
I agree that everyone has a certain tolerance level. But I keep repeating on this site that when people are looking for places to live in the area, it is irresponsible to provide misinformation and personal feeling about a place. What gets me the most is that a large part of the information is outright false or completely misguided. I always tell people go see for yourself. Check out the crime stats for yourself. I've corrected so many false stats and numbers it is a shame.
And people here don't explain themselves. "PG County is dirty and trashy." Why? What part of PG are you talking about because the whole county certainly doesn't look dirty and old. "I fear driving down Greenbelt Road." What do you fear? What part of Greenbelt Road? Have you had a bad experience? Or is it just that there are more minorities walking around than you're used to?
If I never lived in this area, I'd think it was worse than Detroit or NYC and avoid it at all costs if I didn't do my own research. But having lived here all my life, I can say that the negativity is turned way too high and that is a disservice to those looking for a comfortable and affordable place to live.
I agree with you that I don't like the generalizations of certain areas. I assure you that my information about white oak isn't based off of hearsay. I have done a lot of research in that area and sources like crimereports.com can confirm much of what I say. Most of the crime up there is robberies, thefts and things of that nature. Some would consider that not scary because they feel as though if you lock up your stuff, keep your expensive items from being visible and not walk alone at night that things will be okay. For me those are good things to know but not enough to make me feel safe.
I also should mention that as you know cherry hill road is right there and go through the montogmery-pg county line. a lot of parts in this area near district borders attract crime. Unfortunately this area is no different. Is it a warzone? No but it still would make me nervous especially with a family.
Long white, red or blue logo-less T-shirt that goes down to mid thigh.
Pants or shorts that are baggier than the long shirt and hand down nearly as low.
Shaved Head and/or baseball cap tilted to side
Ratty a$$ tats covering necks, faces, hands, any part of the body not covered by a suit ( I call them job blockers)
bloodshot eyes, tiny little (or blow open) pupils
that wonderful staggering, posturing, tilting, "Hey I hate everything and own this town" posture.
Insert race of your choice into this garb and I call them thugs, low lives, or at best, wannabes. Not what I want to see or expect to see in my neighborhood. We had very few to none of these people from thug culture in our town 5-10 years ago, now it is hard to drive around and not see them. Not a surprise that the crime rate has risen steadily........
And before anyone tries to accuse me of stereotyping or anything like that....I used to work in a wonderful world where Social Services, Criminal Justice, and intimate human interaction all come together, so I don't just assume these people are up to no good, I know there names, their rap sheet, who they hang with, who they procreate with, it is enough to turn even the staunchest Libertarian into a conservative in a few short years.
I think this is the reason why so many crimes remained unsolved. If law enforcement continue to think like this than all someone would have to do is not fit the stereotypical description to get away with the crime. I always used the sniper attacks as an example. What happened to that middle aged white man with the white van? Exactly....
I think this is the reason why so many crimes remained unsolved. If law enforcement continue to think like this than all someone would have to do is not fit the stereotypical description to get away with the crime. I always used the sniper attacks as an example. What happened to that middle aged white man with the white van? Exactly....
I don't think I would use the sniper attacks as a counter example to police profiling. You had a black man named "Muhammad" driving a big unmarked van, sleeping at rest stops with an unrelated young black man. That would set off every profile radar I know of.
You have a good point, if the criminals decided to.....not dress or act like criminals, they would get away with alot more crime. Heck, maybe those unsolved crimes are committed by people that manage to not look like they are up to no good.
Not surprisingly most thugs don't think that way, because they want to "fit in" with their hoodlum friends, and amazingly, to most of them, getting arrested or serving some time in the clink is good news as it gives them more "street cred" among their lowlife peers once they are recycled back into the criminal pool.
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