Streetcar/light rail from Anacostia to National Harbor

[wisedisguise]

Originally Posted by UrbanScholar

Well I know one of the concerns with the yellow line would be the development of an agreement with VA on who would pay for what. That said, having one of the lines in MD would be a lot easier. Especially the green line since the distance to build would be a lot shorter. The problem with the green line is that it would also increase access to the harbor to those individuals not hight on the preferred client list. That said it may be a long way off if that is the approach. As for space. it is getting a little tight there but based on the latest schematic they would propose something adjacent to where the casino resort is proposed. Since there is a park and ride across the street I could see metro or MD coverting that lot into a garage.

I had to pause over your sentence about Metro bringing in "individuals not high on the preferred client list". What is the preferred client list? I have been reading all of the other posts in favor of gentrification of the South Capital street/Eastover area and had to think back on what gentrification means. If all of the above would like to make the area more attractive/accessible to the middle class putting a Metro station there would be a major move. If true gentrification is to take place where do we draw the line at preferred clientele? Are there social undesirables at any Metro station in the area or have the local jurisdictions figured out a manner in which to rid themselves of them?

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by wisedisguise

I had to pause over your sentence about Metro bringing in "individuals not high on the preferred client list". What is the preferred client list? I have been reading all of the other posts in favor of gentrification of the South Capital street/Eastover area and had to think back on what gentrification means. If all of the above would like to make the area more attractive/accessible to the middle class putting a Metro station there would be a major move. If true gentrification is to take place where do we draw the line at preferred clientele? Are there social undesirables at any Metro station in the area or have the local jurisdictions figured out a manner in which to rid themselves of them?

Generally speaking individuals that would not be high on the list are those individuals who are not there to spend; those individuals who are actively harassing other visitors; those that go for the specific purpose of committing some type of criminal act, etc. Gentrification has its pros and cons but I believe the average person is for and not against it.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by UrbanScholar

Generally speaking individuals that would not be high on the list are those individuals who are not there to spend; those individuals who are actively harassing other visitors; those that go for the specific purpose of committing some type of criminal act, etc. Gentrification has its pros and cons but I believe the average person is for and not against it.

Two cases in point when I think of this type of clientele, Wheaton, Downtown Silver Spring, China Town, etc. Basically, when you make an entertainment development or a mall accessible to the metro, you also make it accessible to teenagers who have nothing to do but cause problems. Now one thing Milton Peterson can do is create a curfew for National Harbor. If you're not with your parent after 10pm, you shouldn't be on the street. Now, that's a tough thing to do since you have so many hotels who may have young guests that may be unaware of the curfew. Perhaps hotels can post this or mention it when guests with children arrive. National Harbor is self-contained enough to do something like that I guess.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I'm not sure. I'm hearing a lot of talk about the green or purple lines going there first. Also, I'm no so sure VA would make it that easy for their patrons to come over to National Harbor. In addition, I would imagine that they would want a commuter garage or lot as National Harbor could service those in Ft. Washington and points south. Is there even enough space at National Harbor for a station?

I think a green line spur off of Southern Ave works better, going down Indian Head Highway would be better. Would relieve some commuter traffic as well

[wisedisguise]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I think a green line spur off of Southern Ave works better, going down Indian Head Highway would be better. Would relieve some commuter traffic as well

Here is where we begin with the problem at hand. If it were to relieve some commuter traffic, how are they going to get to the station and where will the people park? Will Metro or NH build a behemoth parking garage below/above ground? How badly will that traffic affect surrounding communities that already face burgeoning traffic problems? Has/does anyone drive that area and know what it's like? I can tell you it wasn't anything to look forward to 20 years ago and it's worse now.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Two cases in point when I think of this type of clientele, Wheaton, Downtown Silver Spring, China Town, etc. Basically, when you make an entertainment development or a mall accessible to the metro, you also make it accessible to teenagers who have nothing to do but cause problems. Now one thing Milton Peterson can do is create a curfew for National Harbor. If you're not with your parent after 10pm, you shouldn't be on the street. Now, that's a tough thing to do since you have so many hotels who may have young guests that may be unaware of the curfew. Perhaps hotels can post this or mention it when guests with children arrive. National Harbor is self-contained enough to do something like that I guess.

That is a good point. PG already has a teen curfew on the books so it would just take enforcement. If the police were committed to enforcing that rule then the hotels shouldn't have a problem communicating that to guest. My personal opinion is, as a parent, I would be hesitant to have my child (teen-age or otherwise) wandering around an unfamiliar area (call me over-protective). But in all honesty most of the kids that I see down there don't appear to be tourists.

[River_Bend]

Couple of points: The distance to the nearest Yellow line station is shorter than any Green line routes. The new Wilson Bridge was planned and built to support a Rail line. The Yellow line connection is more desirable as it connects not only Fort Washington/Indian Head corridor commuters to Downtown via MetroRail, but also 2 major commercial/residential/entertainment destinations - Old Town and National Harbor (NH) - to each other. Commuter traffic up 295 and Indian Head Highway to Downtown/Capitol Hill is atrocious and underserved by public transportation options. There is tons of space available near NH - the area currently called the "Plateau" and future casino location (originally proposed to be a mixed used business park). Directly next to the "Plateau" there is a large WMATA Park and Ride lot ("Oxon Hill Park & Ride") used for MetroBus riders. It would be an easy and obvious terminus and parking facility for the Yellow line over the Wilson Bridge. Additionally, the new Tanger Outlets and future MGM casino are directly adjacent to the Oxon Hill Park & Ride, and create an additional density/destination argument for this location as the NH Yellow Line Metro station. Additional commercial and business space is also available at this location (former FBI office building) that is ripe for further development spurred by public transportation expansion.