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As all of you already know, I'm for question 7. But looking at history, I would say that the odds favor it not passing. Simply because Maryland is well known for its anti-business climate and tends to foul up economic growth at every turn. As I sit here contemplating what is happening in north PG with Whole Foods and those who oppose it saying that the grocer is elitist and doesn't support unions. To the dilapidated buildings along north College Park where just 5 years ago, developers were lined up to make College Park a top college town. To the financial demise of University Town Center in Hyattsville. Landover Mall, sitting next to FedEX field, which could be a vibrant place to hang out after a game continues to sit undeveloped. Now the state has given up moving the HHS to Landover and has had to restart the bidding process. Businesses continue to complain about the lengthy permit process. Some businesses waiting months to open just because their permits are held up somewhere.
Why can't we get it right? It's like we have this anti-business OCD that prevents us from capitalizing on smart growth and economic development. We're one of the wealthiest states. So why can't we embrace business and development? Traffic? Traffic comes with economic development. You can't have one without the other. Business brings jobs and patrons. People want to live where they work. This increases the population which increase traffic. Why do we have it stuck in our head that we can be like NOVA without any increase in traffic? We sit here and have NOVA economic development thrown in our face and we say, "Well, at least we don't have their traffic." But we don't have their jobs, schools, services, and amenities either. We have 15 metro stops to mitigate against traffic - not eliminate it. But we still say, well, half a mile from the metro is not really transit oriented development. The traffic will be too bad. Come on people. Have they put something in our drinking water? I'm all for smart growth - developing in places that make sense. Yet, people even have issues with developments that make sense. This gives developers so much stress from having to fight just to do business here that they pack up and move on. Our we get some watered down version that no one will enjoy.
Yes, it is our right to fight to maintain the character of our neighborhoods and not let developers just throw anything up. But at what cost? Should we continue to be a bedroom community with high taxes because we have scared other revenue away at every turn so that we can keep our neighborhoods non-walk-able with no jobs or services nearby? Do we like having to hop in our cars and drive 3 miles down the road just to get to a grocery store or to have a good place to eat and hear good music? PG in particular has complained for decades that we don't have the amenities other counties have. But when the opportunity comes, we badger the developers about traffic, roads, setbacks, elite grocers, skepticism, crowds, noise, "other people" crime, etc. Yet, NOVA thrives with everything we seem to be afraid of.
Will Maryland ever get a clue? Will we have to have to end up like California or some other state that has to shut down because there's no more money to support the operations of the state? Business is not the enemy. Developers aren't the enemy. We are the enemy to ourselves. Perhaps we should purchase our drinking water from NOVA. Then perhaps things will change.
As all of you already know, I'm for question 7. But looking at history, I would say that the odds favor it not passing. Simply because Maryland is well known for its anti-business climate and tends to foul up economic growth at every turn. As I sit here contemplating what is happening in north PG with Whole Foods and those who oppose it saying that the grocer is elitist and doesn't support unions. To the dilapidated buildings along north College Park where just 5 years ago, developers were lined up to make College Park a top college town. To the financial demise of University Town Center in Hyattsville. Landover Mall, sitting next to FedEX field, which could be a vibrant place to hang out after a game continues to sit undeveloped. Now the state has given up moving the HHS to Landover and has had to restart the bidding process. Businesses continue to complain about the lengthy permit process. Some businesses waiting months to open just because their permits are held up somewhere.
Why can't we get it right? It's like we have this anti-business OCD that prevents us from capitalizing on smart growth and economic development. We're one of the wealthiest states. So why can't we embrace business and development? Traffic? Traffic comes with economic development. You can't have one without the other. Business brings jobs and patrons. People want to live where they work. This increases the population which increase traffic. Why do we have it stuck in our head that we can be like NOVA without any increase in traffic? We sit here and have NOVA economic development thrown in our face and we say, "Well, at least we don't have their traffic." But we don't have their jobs, schools, services, and amenities either. We have 15 metro stops to mitigate against traffic - not eliminate it. But we still say, well, half a mile from the metro is not really transit oriented development. The traffic will be too bad. Come on people. Have they put something in our drinking water? I'm all for smart growth - developing in places that make sense. Yet, people even have issues with developments that make sense. This gives developers so much stress from having to fight just to do business here that they pack up and move on. Our we get some watered down version that no one will enjoy.
Yes, it is our right to fight to maintain the character of our neighborhoods and not let developers just throw anything up. But at what cost? Should we continue to be a bedroom community with high taxes because we have scared other revenue away at every turn so that we can keep our neighborhoods non-walk-able with no jobs or services nearby? Do we like having to hop in our cars and drive 3 miles down the road just to get to a grocery store or to have a good place to eat and hear good music? PG in particular has complained for decades that we don't have the amenities other counties have. But when the opportunity comes, we badger the developers about traffic, roads, setbacks, elite grocers, skepticism, crowds, noise, "other people" crime, etc. Yet, NOVA thrives with everything we seem to be afraid of.
Will Maryland ever get a clue? Will we have to have to end up like California or some other state that has to shut down because there's no more money to support the operations of the state? Business is not the enemy. Developers aren't the enemy. We are the enemy to ourselves. Perhaps we should purchase our drinking water from NOVA. Then perhaps things will change.
I think that whoever could answer that question could be rich. I partially disagree that question 7 won't pass. I believe that it will pass at the state level but it would be a toss-up for PG. Based on the most recent polls both state and county could pass by a very very very small margin. That said we will have to see what happens on election day.
As for the rest of your statement. We do have a fundemental problem in attracting business and I don't know why we make it so hard. Its not like there are no strong examples of how to do it right. I do believe that the mindset is changing but it is going to take a long time. And at the county level it will be longer because we like to cut off our noses to spite our faces. Just recently I heard that there is a strong chance that Tanger won't open up until 2014 because of the lawsuits that were brought forth by those opposing to slow down the start of the development.
Tanger has had to go through so many hurdles that projects that they started to pursue after ours are now about to open. Even Tanger stated that this was one of the most complex processes that they had to go through to green light a project. Like you, I am all for being throrough but at some point we need to re-evaluate what we are doing and determine if it is the best approach.
I think that whoever could answer that question could be rich. I partially disagree that question 7 won't pass. I believe that it will pass at the state level but it would be a toss-up for PG. Based on the most recent polls both state and county could pass by a very very very small margin. That said we will have to see what happens on election day.
As for the rest of your statement. We do have a fundemental problem in attracting business and I don't know why we make it so hard. Its not like there are no strong examples of how to do it right. I do believe that the mindset is changing but it is going to take a long time. And at the county level it will be longer because we like to cut off our noses to spite our faces. Just recently I heard that there is a strong chance that Tanger won't open up until 2014 because of the lawsuits that were brought forth by those opposing to slow down the start of the development.
Tanger has had to go through so many hurdles that projects that they started to pursue after ours are now about to open. Even Tanger stated that this was one of the most complex processes that they had to go through to green light a project. Like you, I am all for being throrough but at some point we need to re-evaluate what we are doing and determine if it is the best approach.
I think there needs to be time limits on developments. There is a place for discourse, discussion, and hearings. But for goodness sake, speed it up. Give each side a chance to state their case. Allow for appeals. Put it to a vote. If it passes, move on. Lawsuits appear to be nothing but filibusterers that the losing side uses to stall approved projects. If you don't like the county and city counsel's votes, vote them out. We have due process, but it's too convoluted and complex. I think lawsuits should only be brought forward if there is an actual law broken. I mean are all of these lawsuits valid? I haven't really looked into any lawsuits in this regard.
I hear you. It's a screwed up system that we have in this state and although at times there are legitimate reasons not to push these developments through, there are certainly times when there aren't legitimate reasons. What I don't understand, and please don't take this the wrong way, is why are you still living in this state? Do you realize these things have been going on for decades and are unlikely to change anytime soon. It can't be that bad if you're still living here right? I mean people who were waiting for the National Harbor had to wait almost as long as we have been alive. Is that the kind of life you want? It's great to be dream about the potential of a place, but at one point is enough, enough?
I think there needs to be time limits on developments. There is a place for discourse, discussion, and hearings. But for goodness sake, speed it up. Give each side a chance to state their case. Allow for appeals. Put it to a vote. If it passes, move on. Lawsuits appear to be nothing but filibusterers that the losing side uses to stall approved projects. If you don't like the county and city counsel's votes, vote them out. We have due process, but it's too convoluted and complex. I think lawsuits should only be brought forward if there is an actual law broken. I mean are all of these lawsuits valid? I haven't really looked into any lawsuits in this regard.
I believe that there are time limits for developments but filing a lawsuit is part of our due process (and the American way). That said it is often used as a tool to delay a project. It can also be used to bring to light an issue with a project but more often than not is is the former and not the latter.
What I don't understand, and please don't take this the wrong way, is why are you still living in this state? Do you realize these things have been going on for decades and are unlikely to change anytime soon. It can't be that bad if you're still living here right? I mean people who were waiting for the National Harbor had to wait almost as long as we have been alive. Is that the kind of life you want? It's great to be dream about the potential of a place, but at one point is enough, enough?
For the same reason you accuse me of wearing rose-colored glasses and not looking at things from a certain point of view. You see that I actually don't wear those glasses and have concerns like anyone else. NO place is perfect. The reason why I'm still here is because I was born and raised here. I have vested interests here. And I still believe there is tremendous potential in this county and state. Progress is slow, but there is progress. I'm a well-heeled traveler and the grass is not always greener elsewhere. I think Maryland is special even with its hangups. Prince Georges County is probably one of the most opportunistic counties in the country as far as developments. We're a suburb of D.C. that has an educated populous with better than average incomes, 15 metro stations, protected farmlands, a good university, etc. etc. I love the diversity of my neighborhood. I love my neighbors. Can the county and state do better? Yes. Do I want to witness the transformation into one of the more desired places to live in the region? Yes! But time is running out though. Once I retire, I'm headed to Florida.
Last edited by adelphi_sky; 11-01-2012 at 12:43 PM..
For the same reason you accuse me of wearing rose-colored glasses and not looking at things from a certain point of view. You see that I actually don't wear those glasses and have concerns like anyone else. NO place is perfect. The reason why I'm still here is because I was born and raised here. I have vested interests here. And I still believe there is tremendous potential in this county and state. Progress is slow, but there is progress. I'm a well-heeled traveler and the grass is not always greener elsewhere. I think Maryland is special even with its hangups. Prince Georges County is probably one of the most opportunistic counties in the country as far as developments. We're a suburb of D.C. that has an educated populous with better than average incomes, 15 metro stations, protected farmlands, a good university, etc. etc. I love the diversity of my neighborhood. I love my neighbors. Can the county and state do better? Yes. Do I want to witness the transformation into one of the more desired places to live in the region? Yes! But time is running out though. Once I retire, I'm headed to Florida.
Well it can't be that bad, can it? No place is perfect, true, but you complain about the same thing and you tolerate it. You are free to move to another place where this is not the issue. Sometimes you can't fit a square peg in a circle hole.
Well it can't be that bad, can it? No place is perfect, true, but you complain about the same thing and you tolerate it. You are free to move to another place where this is not the issue. Sometimes you can't fit a square peg in a circle hole.
And it's not. Never said it was. See, I can complain and participate in the movement to make things better by voting on issues that move the county's economic initiatives forward. I'm actively involved with local officials to make sure my voice is heard. Therefore, I have a right to complain. But I also make sure I'm doing something to help. And while I'm free to move somewhere else, I'm also free to stay and help make that square peg round.
And it's not. Never said it was. See, I can complain and participate in the movement to make things better by voting on issues that move the county's economic initiatives forward. I'm actively involved with local officials to make sure my voice is heard. Therefore, I have a right to complain. But I also make sure I'm doing something to help. And while I'm free to move somewhere else, I'm also free to stay and help make that square peg round.
Good job. Seriously, there are a lot of people who live here that wouldn't do a thing but complain. I commend you for your efforts.
Lots to digest.
I don't like the elitist mindset being shoved upon the entire county because we aren't. I totally agree we can't let developers throw up anything because we are desperate for anything. I have thought the Westphalia road corridor should have been developed decades ago because of it's proximity to the beltway, Suitland parkway and Rt 4. Why not, I will never know. Think of the available land over there and the lack of housing developments that wouldn't be disturbed. I knew a woman who bought up untold acres of land there years ago so developers could go to one person about purchasing it. Again, that was years ago and no one ever approached her. That open land extended all the way to Central Ave.
There is a perfect example of the MD state anti-business stance. They let open land perfect for industrial/retail growth sit for naught. Where was the PGC Chamber of Commerce?
Something I think of when discussing development in this part of the county is you can't stack sprawl on top of sprawl. PGC is a perfect depiction of sprawl as it radiates down to the southernmost of neighboring counties as to the west and north. A very real problem is those commuters have nowhere to go but through where some of us already live and makes things worse. The areas outside the beltway between Rt 5 and 210 are of the worst. I drive to Port Tobacco on back roads during rush hour at times and the commuters are crazy. Those are my usual routes of choice and I no longer commute.
I don't know exactly where other people on this site live - I am roughly 6 miles from NH. My surrounding roads look like the state has to invest money in them yesterday due to too much traffic introduced after the area was developed. We have a lot of green spaces around here and I will admittedly cry NIMBY before they are encroached upon.
I think we need to try out some "watered down" versions of what will be built to see if they will stand the test of time; for some reason the Denny's in Clinton shut down, one of the only sit down restaurants in the area. Why build a $$$ joint when a Denny's can't exist? I remember when Rivertowne Commons was first built and was supposed to be the next big deal. It didn't pan out though I still frequent Home Depot and Staples. The rest is your run of the mill crap you find in any strip mall. Why did it go downhill so quickly? The movie theater is empty space. They should redo that place.
I have to echo a statement I read on here by someone else a while ago who said too many parts of PGC need to be redeveloped. Landover mall is but one instance. There are stretches of roads inside the beltway that have miles of dilapidated(almost condemnable) buildings that could be reinvested in. Most of Eastover is a dump, should be steamrolled to a flat surface and built anew; specifically retail areas where no retail exists. All of these places are almost DC. Consider the open space on Allentown Road across the street from Andrews AFB. It's criminal that sits open. It has all of the infrastructure in place and is close to Metro as well as the beltway. The section of Branch Ave between 495/Suitland parkway is prime as well. These are more reinvestments of aleady developed spaces.
Then again, we have the stigma of intense crime to shed which in my eyes isn't as bad as perceived. Crime exists everywhere, how does one escape it? You can be carjacked in Old Town, Upper Marlboro, any gated community, Potomac, BCC, Annapolis...take your pick. You can be shot anywhere as well. Will clearing hundreds of acres of trees on the sides of 210 make crime go away? How about the big lot that used to be the ABC drive-in movie theater? ABC has been sitting open and vacant for decades and was only used sporadically for open air flea markets years ago after closing the theater.
I am a long-time resident of the county, probably longer than most on here, and moved here because it was close to town, quiet and had big lots. I still like that aspect as I am sure most people on the west side of the county do. Does anyone here know the history of the developments around Ft Washington? How many people know there used to be two large drive-in theaters in Ft Washington along 210 within a couple miles of each other? I know a few residents of the original Tantallon neighborhood whose houses abut the golf course/country club. Those houses weren't built by a developer; one had to purchase a lot and hire a contractor to build the house. Newer transplants demand bigger, better, faster and more with no knowledge of the history of the area. I feel those who invested in the area long ago do have a voice in how the area is developed for the reason we have lived here and paid more in property taxes over the years than some have equity in their homes.
I don't think my perspective to be unreasonable as I am sure more than I may feel the same. Development/growth is good but don't chase me out of where I have taken the time to make a home over a period of years. No one should be forced to move because others want to infringe.
Though I like NH for what it is I am against #7. I doubt the state will ever realize hundreds of millions for education and I don't see 12K jobs averaging $50K year coming out of there. If the Tanger outlet ever opens it may have 100 stores. If each store employed 100 that would be a total of 1000 people. Sure, that is 1000 jobs but they aren't in the $50K range. Where are the 12K jobs going to come from? Thin air?
The best revenue the state has at present is traffic light/speeding cameras. Go figure.
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To the dilapidated buildings along north College Park where just 5 years ago, developers were lined up to make College Park a top college town. To the financial demise of University Town Center in Hyattsville. Landover Mall, sitting next to FedEX field, which could be a vibrant place to hang out after a game continues to sit undeveloped. Now the state has given up moving the HHS to Landover and has had to restart the bidding process. Businesses continue to complain about the lengthy permit process. Some businesses waiting months to open just because their permits are held up somewhere. 
