2012 Voter Fraud in Prince George's County? (California, North Beach: 2013, credit report, felony)

[justtitans]

I ran across an interesting opinion piece in the Gazette that was written by the President of a nonprofit known as Election Integrity Maryland and in her piece, she makes some very interesting statements. Check it out:

Voter ‘fraud does exist and it does matter’ -- Gazette.Net

Election Integrity Maryland is a nonprofit corporation that has trained volunteers who actively examine voter registrations in Maryland. Collectively, we discovered “irregularities” in approximately 16,000 voter registrations, indicating serious issues with timely record maintenance of the voter registrations, which we first reported to the Prince George’s County Board of Elections in June 2012.


Among our discoveries: 416 people had death records issued yet their names were still on voter rolls; 254 voters were registered in multiple states; 19 voters had duplicate registrations in Maryland; 1,026 voters were located at addresses other than the address on their registration; 66 individuals were identified as registered out of commercial business addresses; five voters were registered at vacant lots; and 186 voter registrations were incomplete in terms of valid mailing issues.

Election Integrity Maryland identified approximately 1,000 voters that had death notices located by the Social Security Death Index, some of whom appeared to have voted after their date of death. Our findings were reported to the state Board of Elections and the local offices in the form of challenges, and a separate report of just the identified deceased voters was sent to the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. These efforts received very little attention and no actual response.

Very very interesting stuff. Certainly there is a lot to be said about what Ms. Kelleher is stating here. If there is any truth to what she is stating, I think this is appalling. Say what you want about Republicans (and no I am not a Republican), they have the right idea about the voting process but the issue that I think most people (especially Democrats) is that they have the wrong intention. I think outside of that, having identification is a very logical step to mitigate this process. I mean do you sell liquor without checking ID? Do you sell someone a gun *cough cough* without checking ID, background, mental sanity, etc.? If these things are so important that ID must be checked, then how does one argue that the most important and yet basic right we have as people in this country does not deserve the same integrity? I would love to hear an official statement from Prince George's County about these findings, but I know that is very unlikely. Thoughts?

[justtitans]

Apparently this organization's issue doesn't just end with Prince George's County. There is apparently a similar process with the state of Maryland.

Fraud watchdog group questions Maryland voter rolls’ integrity -- SoMdNews.com

But an official at the State Board of Elections said the board constantly updates voter rolls and that Election Integrity Maryland’s claims show it doesn’t understand “basic components” of the National Voter Registration Act.


Cathy Kelleher, the head of Election Integrity Maryland, said her organization pored over 36,000 names on the state’s voter rolls in the last two years. In that list, it found more than 1,100 names of people who were deceased but still listed on voter rolls, she said. Election Integrity Maryland found the names of four people who appeared to have voted when they were listed as dead, she said.

That analysis took place from just 1 percent of the state’s voters, she said, meaning that statewide, there could be hundreds of fraudulent votes cast. She said that challenges the group sent to local boards and the State Board of Elections have been met with silence.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

I ran across an interesting opinion piece in the Gazette that was written by the President of a nonprofit known as Election Integrity Maryland and in her piece, she makes some very interesting statements. Check it out:

Voter ‘fraud does exist and it does matter’ -- Gazette.Net

Very very interesting stuff. Certainly there is a lot to be said about what Ms. Kelleher is stating here. If there is any truth to what she is stating, I think this is appalling. Say what you want about Republicans (and no I am not a Republican), they have the right idea about the voting process but the issue that I think most people (especially Democrats) is that they have the wrong intention. I think outside of that, having identification is a very logical step to mitigate this process. I mean do you sell liquor without checking ID? Do you sell someone a gun *cough cough* without checking ID, background, mental sanity, etc.? If these things are so important that ID must be checked, then how does one argue that the most important and yet basic right we have as people in this country does not deserve the same integrity? I would love to hear an official statement from Prince George's County about these findings, but I know that is very unlikely. Thoughts?

I think we're expecting perfection from an imperfect system run by imperfect people. Chalk half of it up to sloppy record keeping. I'd argue a small percentage is intentional fraud. Look at the Veteran's Affairs record keeping debacle. Abysmal and a tragedy. Health records? Forget it. Even I catch inconsistencies with my own medical records. Credit reports always have incorrect data. This ancient way of record keeping also makes it easy for fraud to occur. So, how can we expect voter records to be free from error or fraud if we don't drastically change the entire registration system?

This is not only a Prince George's County problem or even a Maryland problem. This is a country-wide problem. As long as humans are involved, there will be fraud and inconsistencies unfortunately.

Here are the facts:

• To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
• More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
• There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
• More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
• True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
• Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
• This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states.
  • California: 49,000
  • Florida: 30,000
  • Texas: 28,500
  • Michigan: 25,000
  • Illinois: 24,000

Although, there is one way to mitigate the numbers of voter fraud. Use biometric fingerprint scanners at voting centers. I'm not sure how expensive that would be or how long it would take to implement. But it would be very hard to duplicate someone's fingerprint. No more dead voters voting.

[goldenage1]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

Apparently this organization's issue doesn't just end with Prince George's County. There is apparently a similar process with the state of Maryland.

Fraud watchdog group questions Maryland voter rolls’ integrity -- SoMdNews.com

Regarding the 4 people who apparently voted after being declared dead, let's acknowledge that SSA death reporting system has errors also. The confusion of names or transposed numbers could be responsible, rather than true fraud.

I don't think we should jump into a process to make voting more difficult.

[North Beach Person]

As it is right now removing someone from the voter registration list in MD is almost impossible. Even if you know someone has moved if they themselves don't change their registration the local Board of Elections can't remove it. Dead people present a challenge, a relative has to notify the Board.

It used to be that if a person didn't vote in 3 consecutive elections their name could be removed. No longer, the local Board has to send out a series of certified letters notifying the person.

Add to that the fact that many MD Towns allowed non-resident property owners to vote you have a mangled process. Even though the non-resident voting was declared invalid in 1986 (Tobin v. Town of North Beach) there are still individual non-residents who attempt to vote at multiple locations.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I think we're expecting perfection from an imperfect system run by imperfect people. Chalk half of it up to sloppy record keeping. I'd argue a small percentage is intentional fraud. Look at the Veteran's Affairs record keeping debacle. Abysmal and a tragedy. Health records? Forget it. Even I catch inconsistencies with my own medical records. Credit reports always have incorrect data. This ancient way of record keeping also makes it easy for fraud to occur. So, how can we expect voter records to be free from error or fraud if we don't drastically change the entire registration system?

This is not only a Prince George's County problem or even a Maryland problem. This is a country-wide problem. As long as humans are involved, there will be fraud and inconsistencies unfortunately.

Although, there is one way to mitigate the numbers of voter fraud. Use biometric fingerprint scanners at voting centers. I'm not sure how expensive that would be or how long it would take to implement. But it would be very hard to duplicate someone's fingerprint. No more dead voters voting.

Do you have data to support that claim?

I agree human error is an issue, but isn't the best course of action is to protect the institution of voting by verifying that people are who they say they are. It's really simple, your Id should match the information on the registration card and if it doesn't you should provide some proof of residence. What would we say if underage kids were going to liquor stores and illegally getting alcohol at this same rate. I think to say that the process is flawed because we are imperfect is a huge cop out. Should we not make the better? Do not think ID would help?

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by goldenage1

Regarding the 4 people who apparently voted after being declared dead, let's acknowledge that SSA death reporting system has errors also. The confusion of names or transposed numbers could be responsible, rather than true fraud.

I don't think we should jump into a process to make voting more difficult.

But we should make guns more difficult to get for law abiding citizens? How is having ID making things more challenging? Do you want integrity or do you just want a system?

Is withdrawing money from a bank difficult? How would the process be any different?

[Fast GTO]

Not enough to sway an election.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Fast GTO

Not enough to sway an election.

And we know this how?

[Zimar]

The title of this thread is actually somewhat misleading... what this organization found is evidence of voter registration irregularities, not voter fraud. While these irregularities are certainly a serious issue that should be dealt with appropriately, actual voter fraud is a much *more* serious issue. Voter fraud would mean that someone purposefully tried to cheat the voting system, not that some names or addresses were mixed up on the rolls. Proven incidents of this are really rare. What these articles are talking about is the possibility of voter fraud occurring, not the fraud itself. I am sure that if this organization had found evidence of actual voter fraud, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and it would be a bigger story. These articles are peppered with "Look, this COULD have happened and it would have been a catastrophe!" I think it hurts the credibility of whoever is reporting on this to jump right out with "voter fraud!"

What concerns me more are the voting machines that leave no paper record, as someone on this board told me is the situation in MD. What is up with THAT?? If I were diabolical enough to try to steal a major election, hacking those machines would be my route.