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Old 09-29-2020, 12:30 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,397 posts, read 60,592,880 times
Reputation: 61012

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
You were not alone.

And we were dismissed, jeered, and called all sorts of names. All because we opposed a boondoggle designed to help developers.
Yes we were.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
6,801 posts, read 4,246,943 times
Reputation: 18597
Silver Line to Dulles was expected to be open by mid 2017. It's late 2020 and still not open. Currently 'expected' opening: July 2021.



All of these projects are years late and cost way more than when initially proposed.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:21 AM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,573,042 times
Reputation: 3780
Just an observation. I'm not aware of any projects of this scope and this type in a major metro area involving multiple municipalities that hasn't gone over budget or has been delayed. Especially delays due to wealthy neighborhoods filing multiple lawsuits. History has shown that usually, project like these, when they run mostly through lower income neighborhoods, there is little resistance due to lack of financial and political resources.

Those are pretty insurmountable obstacles that any project would encounter. Did the private entities know the project was in litigation when they signed up? Yep. Did they know the current pace of land acquisition? Yep.

What the boondoggle crowd fails to realize is that most of the infrastructure they enjoy had challenges as they were built. Hell, when contractors work on my house, there are almost always issues. I swear every time someone works on my house I hear, "Oh, that's not good." Or there is some odd in explicable delay. I can't even get my landscapers to arrive on the day they say they will arrive.

This may be a boondoggle, but one worth completion. And perhaps there are boondoggles because politics are always involved. With a PPP, you've added another layer of politics. Had the state gone at it alone, that extra layer of complexity would be removed.

One result of this is that PPPs will be looked at as costly and unsuccessful. I'd image states will look at this one and decide to continue managing their own projects - taking on all the risk and get all the reward.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,892,595 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Just an observation. I'm not aware of any projects of this scope and this type in a major metro area involving multiple municipalities that hasn't gone over budget or has been delayed. Especially delays due to wealthy neighborhoods filing multiple lawsuits. History has shown that usually, project like these, when they run mostly through lower income neighborhoods, there is little resistance due to lack of financial and political resources.

Those are pretty insurmountable obstacles that any project would encounter. Did the private entities know the project was in litigation when they signed up? Yep. Did they know the current pace of land acquisition? Yep.

What the boondoggle crowd fails to realize is that most of the infrastructure they enjoy had challenges as they were built. Hell, when contractors work on my house, there are almost always issues. I swear every time someone works on my house I hear, "Oh, that's not good." Or there is some odd in explicable delay. I can't even get my landscapers to arrive on the day they say they will arrive.

This may be a boondoggle, but one worth completion. And perhaps there are boondoggles because politics are always involved. With a PPP, you've added another layer of politics. Had the state gone at it alone, that extra layer of complexity would be removed.

One result of this is that PPPs will be looked at as costly and unsuccessful. I'd image states will look at this one and decide to continue managing their own projects - taking on all the risk and get all the reward.
Yep. There is a reason why there are curves on the beltway and the biggest boondoggle I have seen in this area is the ICC highway. That money should have been spent on improved transit.
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:09 AM
 
13,650 posts, read 20,780,689 times
Reputation: 7651
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky View Post
Just an observation. I'm not aware of any projects of this scope and this type in a major metro area involving multiple municipalities that hasn't gone over budget or has been delayed. Especially delays due to wealthy neighborhoods filing multiple lawsuits. History has shown that usually, project like these, when they run mostly through lower income neighborhoods, there is little resistance due to lack of financial and political resources.

Those are pretty insurmountable obstacles that any project would encounter. Did the private entities know the project was in litigation when they signed up? Yep. Did they know the current pace of land acquisition? Yep.

What the boondoggle crowd fails to realize is that most of the infrastructure they enjoy had challenges as they were built. Hell, when contractors work on my house, there are almost always issues. I swear every time someone works on my house I hear, "Oh, that's not good." Or there is some odd in explicable delay. I can't even get my landscapers to arrive on the day they say they will arrive.

This may be a boondoggle, but one worth completion. And perhaps there are boondoggles because politics are always involved. With a PPP, you've added another layer of politics. Had the state gone at it alone, that extra layer of complexity would be removed.

One result of this is that PPPs will be looked at as costly and unsuccessful. I'd image states will look at this one and decide to continue managing their own projects - taking on all the risk and get all the reward.
No, it is not.

It mostly replicates what is already present. It was sold via exaggerated, if not dishonest data.

This was the biggest gimme to developers I have ever seen. A gift wrapped present to fat cat developers and builders who salivate at building condos. In years to come, books will devote chapters to this kind of innovation: build a useless transportation system and import the people who will ride it. Well, ride it when they are not in the cars they bring with them to their new luxury condos.

And the real irony- the cruel irony- is that a white conservative can spot greed in action this while a black liberal continues to believe this was actually intended for the public good.
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:00 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 2,690,517 times
Reputation: 2601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
No, it is not.

It mostly replicates what is already present. It was sold via exaggerated, if not dishonest data.

This was the biggest gimme to developers I have ever seen. A gift wrapped present to fat cat developers and builders who salivate at building condos. In years to come, books will devote chapters to this kind of innovation: build a useless transportation system and import the people who will ride it. Well, ride it when they are not in the cars they bring with them to their new luxury condos.

And the real irony- the cruel irony- is that a white conservative can spot greed in action this while a black liberal continues to believe this was actually intended for the public good.
You're correct that the project has increased land values and spawned a frenzy of ongoing and proposed residential and commercial development along the corridor. Which is especially important considering it's one of the few projects to try and span the east/west economic divide in the region. Very odd that you think that's a negative.
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Old 10-06-2020, 03:08 PM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,569,516 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
No, it is not.

It mostly replicates what is already present. It was sold via exaggerated, if not dishonest data.

This was the biggest gimme to developers I have ever seen. A gift wrapped present to fat cat developers and builders who salivate at building condos. In years to come, books will devote chapters to this kind of innovation: build a useless transportation system and import the people who will ride it. Well, ride it when they are not in the cars they bring with them to their new luxury condos.

And the real irony- the cruel irony- is that a white conservative can spot greed in action this while a black liberal continues to believe this was actually intended for the public good.
Can you elaborate on the bolded please?
Also, it will provide better opportunities for existing residents at the east end to get to jobs at the west end, via transit which is isn't practical with current metro bus routes and schedules.
Just an FYI, between a direct grant of $900M and a Transport Infrastructure Financing Loan of $850M the Feds are shouldering the largest share of the project.
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:37 AM
 
2,283 posts, read 3,937,966 times
Reputation: 2105
Of course the Purple Line is a boondoggle. Metrorail ridership peaked in 2008 and has been in a steady decline ever since. The fact is the federal government has been slowly and quietly implementing telework over the last 20 years. And the GSA has been reducing office space as well. I have been teleworking for 22 years but maintain a workstation only because I choose to go to the office one day a week. Otherwise I'd be hoteling (sharing a workstation).

What should've been planned and implemented is a natural gas, rapid bus transit system that could connect the two counties at various east-west points and north-south points within each county. This type of system offers greater flexibility and reach. I read Montgomery County was considering BRT with the County.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:46 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,129 posts, read 7,572,838 times
Reputation: 5786
What makes the Purple Line "worthwhile" or the trouble is the completion of an full circlular light rail line throughout the rest of the inner MD suburbs and crossing into VA to finish the other half of the circle. Unfortunately at this rate I don't see that happening in the next 50 years as there's not even a devised plan for this yet.

Transit in the US is supremely unambitious nowadays, and it's truly disheartening to see the rest of the world run laps around us in transit options. Have you all seen a map of the London Underground? It's like 6 WMATA maps on top of each other. The PL now is at the point where the state will have to step in and get this completed. I think this should fall on the Governor's shoulders too as he enabled this NIMBYism to delay the project by continued litigation that went absolutely no where. If I'm not mistaken his chief transit official fled the state too amidst this situation.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:24 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,569,516 times
Reputation: 1800
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude View Post
Of course the Purple Line is a boondoggle. Metrorail ridership peaked in 2008 and has been in a steady decline ever since. The fact is the federal government has been slowly and quietly implementing telework over the last 20 years. And the GSA has been reducing office space as well. I have been teleworking for 22 years but maintain a workstation only because I choose to go to the office one day a week. Otherwise I'd be hoteling (sharing a workstation).

What should've been planned and implemented is a natural gas, rapid bus transit system that could connect the two counties at various east-west points and north-south points within each county. This type of system offers greater flexibility and reach. I read Montgomery County was considering BRT with the County.
Both BRT and light rail each have advantages over the other, so it's not a foregone conclusion that one is better than the other. It depends to some degree on the specific route. While rail is more expensive to build, it is generally lower to operate. Rail cars last twice as long as buses, which require*more drivers, and emit more pollution.

As to the decline in metro ridership. New developments in places without metro will change people's commuting patterns. There's been a lot of that, particularly*in VA. The population increase in Loudon County alone (no rail) since 2010 equals the drop in daily ridership over the entire metrorail system.
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