Ask to See Permits When You Buy a Home (Baltimore: for sale, real estate)

[DCBornAndRaised]

Flipping homes is popular. But, there are a number of homes for sale where the renovations made have been done without permits and the work is illegal. Because Prince George's County has such poor enforcement of county codes, it would be wise for anyone purchasing a home to ask to see the permits for renovation work done. Chances are high there are none. Just because it's listed on a realtors web site doesn't mean everything is OK. Don't always expect your realtor to be forthcoming about the need for permits and keep you from making a big mistake. Some just want the sale and they aren't going to ask. So when you see these houses with renovated kitchens, new deck, new driveway, recessed lighting, open concept with walls removed, you'd better ask "show me the permits". What say you? Any buyers of flipped homes who have regrets? Oh, and if you are living in a "basement apartment" you'd better check to see if you are living in a fire trap. Are you sleeping in a basement with no way for an adult to escape out a window?

[lookingbutnotlost]

Can't you just check online to see if permits were pulled?

[luv4horses]

In most states “repairs” may not need permits. If the new work can be considered a repair it’s okay. Also certain types of work below a certain cost.

But something as simple as a new furnace is not a repair and needs permitting.

I agree with the OP and if there has been a big renovation you can bet it will come into play if YOU need to sell in the future.

[hikerMD]

Thank you DCBornAndRaised for the PSA. How could one check the permits online?

[Hemlock140]

In most counties, like ours, it's public information. We have a county website that allows you to enter a parcel number or the street address and get everything including owners, tax amounts, permits, a photo and even blueprints in some cases.

In most states permits are not required for everything. For example in our state of Washington, there is no permit required for
- an outbuilding under 200 sf with no electricity or plumbing
- a fence 6' high or less
- a deck less than 30" above the ground
- replacement roof or siding
- Window or door replacements of the same size (no structural change)


https://gismaps.kingcounty.gov/parcelviewer2/

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by DCBornAndRaised

Because Prince George's County has such poor enforcement of county codes

Do you have stats compared to other counties in the region including DC? Just askin because my wife knows a realtor who sells homes in Montgomery county and we are always hearing stories about homes being flipped so fast that the work is shoddy and not up to code.

I would think in any hot market that there will be issues with work being up to code. Especially because of the long waits for permits. I'm sure DC is rife with these issues as hot as that market is.

PS. Aren't home inspectors before purchase supposed to catch these things?

[DCBornAndRaised]

Originally Posted by lookingbutnotlost

Can't you just check online to see if permits were pulled?

Yes you can check online. I'm thinking some buyers don't even think about checking for permits nor do real estate agents working to make a sale. Buying a house can be so emotional and you see that everything looks new so what could be wrong? The easy thing to do is check online and hope that the information is timely and accurate. And one other thing, I think, if it is determined that a potential buyer and real estate agent learn that there were no required permits for the renovation, that new knowledge/information has to be disclosed by the seller to potential buyers. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

In Prince George's County permit info is found : https://dpiestatus.princegeorgescoun...itySearch.aspx

[DCBornAndRaised]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Do you have stats compared to other counties in the region including DC? Just askin because my wife knows a realtor who sells homes in Montgomery county and we are always hearing stories about homes being flipped so fast that the work is shoddy and not up to code.

I would think in any hot market that there will be issues with work being up to code. Especially because of the long waits for permits. I'm sure DC is rife with these issues as hot as that market is.

PS. Aren't home inspectors before purchase supposed to catch these things?

I don't have stats on the problems with flipped houses. I'm pretty well read regarding the issue locally. I just did an Internet search for "Racine law suit for flipped houses in DC" The DC Attorney General had major success suing flippers back in 2016. Then I also searched "law suits flipped houses in Maryland" and got a lot of hits. So the info is out there. Seems I'm almost constantly reading a story about the issue somewhere.

And with regard to a home inspector finding problems, as example of this limitation, remember an inspector is not going to go into the walls and be able to see the wiring and know it meets code. I would also suggest that if the property has been renovated/flipped that the buyer contract with a really top notch inspector, maybe even one who specializes in renovated properties. Lastly, the buyer might do best not to hire an inspector recommended by the real estate agent, but rather seek someone more "independent" and without conflicts.

[DCBornAndRaised]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

In most counties, like ours, it's public information. We have a county website that allows you to enter a parcel number or the street address and get everything including owners, tax amounts, permits, a photo and even blueprints in some cases.

In most states permits are not required for everything. For example in our state of Washington, there is no permit required for
- an outbuilding under 200 sf with no electricity or plumbing
- a fence 6' high or less
- a deck less than 30" above the ground
- replacement roof or siding
- Window or door replacements of the same size (no structural change)


https://gismaps.kingcounty.gov/parcelviewer2/

In Prince George's County you can find out what work requires permits here: https://www.princegeorgescountymd.go...ntial-Building

You can find out whether a permit has been issued for an address here: https://dpiestatus.princegeorgescoun...itySearch.aspx

[RayHammer]

Originally Posted by DCBornAndRaised

Flipping homes is popular. But, there are a number of homes for sale where the renovations made have been done without permits and the work is illegal. Because Prince George's County has such poor enforcement of county codes, it would be wise for anyone purchasing a home to ask to see the permits for renovation work done. Chances are high there are none. Just because it's listed on a realtors web site doesn't mean everything is OK. Don't always expect your realtor to be forthcoming about the need for permits and keep you from making a big mistake. Some just want the sale and they aren't going to ask. So when you see these houses with renovated kitchens, new deck, new driveway, recessed lighting, open concept with walls removed, you'd better ask "show me the permits". What say you? Any buyers of flipped homes who have regrets? Oh, and if you are living in a "basement apartment" you'd better check to see if you are living in a fire trap. Are you sleeping in a basement with no way for an adult to escape out a window?

Poor enforcement? PG county has some of the strictest codes in Maryland. We dreaded working there in my electrician days. Much of the nonsense that we had to do in Baltimore City, County, or PG county were arbitrary and simply increased the cost of the project (for example: "insulated" staples at 5x the cost versus the regular kind that were acceptable everywhere else) rather than provide for any real improvement in safety.