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L'enfant plaza isn't exactly next to congress. It is not far, but you have a quarter mile walk. Wouldnt it make more sense to go to federal center or capitol south if you wanted to get to the capitol.
Also, the 3 million was just some random number I pulled out to illustrate a point. For 300k you are not going to get .75 acre within an hour of congress, not even in Anacostia, which is a bad ghetto. At the very least it will require several times that.
That question was similar to asking, I want a 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2500 square foot house/apartment 1 hour from midtown Manhatten/downtown SF and want to pay 300k or less. Somewhere it some insanely good deal it might exist if you are extremely lucky, but chances are not going to happen.
I used Lenfant cause I happen to know the commute there. Its not that much further to the Hill. And if you think it is, than looking at PG makes even more sense. I just think some folks here have a somewhat exagerated idea of how long the commute is from areas along the beltway to DC. You don't have to be RIGHT NEXT to DC to have a commute less than an hour. Im talking average commute. Traffic (and metro) can vary, and on a bad day it can seem like that.
I used Lenfant cause I happen to know the commute there. Its not that much further to the Hill. And if you think it is, than looking at PG makes even more sense. I just think some folks here have a somewhat exagerated idea of how long the commute is from areas along the beltway to DC. You don't have to be RIGHT NEXT to DC to have a commute less than an hour. Im talking average commute. Traffic (and metro) can vary, and on a bad day it can seem like that.
Im not familiar with traffic in PG county to Maryland, but I am familiar with traffic in Virginia and Moco to DC. It is terrible. Ive spent 30 minutes going 1 mile before. I thought traffic was bad in Austin Texas, but after DC I have realized that I was ignorant of bad traffic. Maybe PG is better.
We found something near Harper's Ferry WV, with an hour and a half (supposed) train ride. Is that number realistic? Public transportation in most of Cali doesn't exist. But you could live 75 miles from somewhere and be there in an hour and 15 min. We've only been to DC once, and did not drive so we have no clue what drive times are, based on mileage.
We found something near Harper's Ferry WV, with an hour and a half (supposed) train ride. Is that number realistic?
Never done it, but I'd say that smells about right.... do you know what the supposed public transport route is? If so, you can prob check schedules online....
Also mind you... 1) Thats JUST the train part.... 2) you still have to get to the train/park, 3) wait for it, 4) hope for no delays, 5) and then get from wherever it goes to wherever you need to be - which is a really important detail because assuming we are talking about union station, thats a mile or two to walk...So I'd say assume 10 minutes to get to train, 10 waiting, 10-15 to get from union station to the office (longer if walking), id say 2 hours each way is more realistic.... when things dont go wrong (which they do, esp in the summer)...
Its your decision but really, unless you are bringing a half dozen alpacas with you or something, 4 HOURS A DAY vs something smaller/closer in is likely to be a heck of lot less stab your eyes out with a fork....
Never done it, but I'd say that smells about right.... do you know what the supposed public transport route is? If so, you can prob check schedules online....
Also mind you... 1) Thats JUST the train part.... 2) you still have to get to the train/park, 3) wait for it, 4) hope for no delays, 5) and then get from wherever it goes to wherever you need to be - which is a really important detail because assuming we are talking about union station, thats a mile or two to walk...So I'd say assume 10 minutes to get to train, 10 waiting, 10-15 to get from union station to the office (longer if walking), id say 2 hours each way is more realistic.... when things dont go wrong (which they do, esp in the summer)...
Its your decision but really, unless you are bringing a half dozen alpacas with you or something, 4 HOURS A DAY vs something smaller/closer in is likely to be a heck of lot less stab your eyes out with a fork....
I agree. It amazes me how someone would possibly choose to live like that. Three or four hours of your life every day spent commuting... Not only is it a waste of time, which could be spent with your family or doing something more productive, it is also completely unsustainable in the long run for us as a society. I think this will eventually be demonstrated by real estate values remaining a lot more stable in close-in neighborhoods than where people are car dependent.
Granted, I would already find an hour of commute in each direction too much and don't want to HAVE to drive to restaurants or the grocery store, and the problem in DC is that to buy even an average sized 3-bedroom house on a small lot for under 300K, you have to put up with that situation - unless you are willing to make heavy compromises on safety and schools. At least that's my experience house hunting, and we weren't even looking in that low a price range. We ended up paying around $700K in order to avoid these compromises (our limit was a ca. 30 min commute to L'Enfant), and are compromising instead on things like vacations, cars, etc. But of course everyone has different priorities.
I agree. It amazes me how someone would possibly choose to live like that. Three or four hours of your life every day spent commuting... Not only is it a waste of time, which could be spent with your family or doing something more productive, it is also completely unsustainable in the long run for us as a society. I think this will eventually be demonstrated by real estate values remaining a lot more stable in close-in neighborhoods than where people are car dependent.
You raise a point I've been wondering myself for some time. I get why real estate in Cleveland Park starts at a million, or why something decent in Mclean is going to be $800K+, or even why Arlington is as much as it is. $200K a year in NW DC is squarely middle class; and Mclean, Arlington, etc are all not far behind (if not already there in some ways). And slowly it seems to me that the price creep has gone further and further out (one friend was telling me about a 2bd loft apartment for $3000 a month in VIENNA!!).. That's all good and well for the mid-level and sr level folks, but what I find increasingly unsustainable is the commutes being imposed on the lower level jobs, because the real estate prices are just pushing them further and further out. I've got one friend making somewhere around $120K a year (married, kids) and he lives out paste Burke. Another analyst I know commutes from near fricking Warrenton - and these are folks who, by and large, make reasonable amounts of money. Go down another income tranche to the folks working at $35K a year as admins or things of the sort and the idea of living anywhere even remotely reasonable seems laughable. And thats today. Imagine another 20 years from now when Chain bridge is still the same. Can you really expect the admin assistant to live on the border of WV and commute in? What about the girl working at the Gap or the guy who has to work at Starbucks to make ends meet but has to come in from 60 miles away? Maybe that sounds ridiculous, and perhaps it is, but take a drive through Warrenton, Culpeper and other places out there and its clear the job market is poor at best. I've met some of these people who are already driving all the way into the city for the privilege of making $10/hr.
Something will just simply have to give. Its just untenable. I don't think prices close in to DC are likely to change at all - there simply isnt any land left to develop and far too much is designated as historic for any real developments to take place on existing property, and there's obviously sufficient demand to keep the housing markets fueled for long long time. "Inside the beltway" already means something significant - you see it in real estate listings all the time. Location is the key to real estate but it seems pervesly true in DC. (this is part of the reason I chose to settle in the city itself).
I put all this together and I see really only a few solutions:
1) Companies will have to move to hyper-local mini offices. Instead of 10 stories in Arlington, you get 1 in bethesda, 1 in arlington, 1 in warrenton, 1 in falls church, etc.
2) Companies will have to further embrace work from home, telecommute or other virtual arrangements.
3) A series of fairly cataclysmic changes in our infrastructure and housing would be needed - something like a complete lifting of height restrictions in DC and Mclean and the subsequent rise of 40 story buildings - chain bridge becoming a 4 lanes in each direction bridge, crazy stuff like that that just isnt going to happen.
I just sit around at night drinking wine wondering about this stuff. Weird I know.
I think about this stuff too. But I have a far more drastic and devastating solution to the problem: destroy businesses and destroy jobs. Frankly, this is the best solution to make housing more affordable and unclog some of our transportation networks.
The DC real estate market was not always like this. There was a time when someone on a modest federal government salary could afford a house in the inner suburbs of Northern Virginia or in Montgomery County, MD. DC-area real estate prices were always slightly higher than the national median prices. A married couple with a combined income of $100,000 could afford a decent place close to the city even up until the mid-1990s. But starting in the late 1990s, prices started to diverge from the national average and things really went crazy during mid-2000s. DC did not have a Housing Bubble in of itself but there was another factor at play.
The post-9/11 Pentagon and Homeland Security budget spending splurge impacted the region's economy like never before. Hundreds--maybe thousands--of independent contracting businesses were formed to meet needs of federal technology and weapons programs. Technologies that manage payroll, procurement, computer networking systems, hardware etc. This led to a hiring boom for engineers, programmers, scientists and anyone with a security clearance. The District region was attracting workers from all over the country and overseas.
The 2nd factor was the lobbying business boom. Law offices and public relations firms were hiring new staff like crazy during the 2000s. When you have a Republican President coupled with a majority Republican Congress (through 2007), American corporations are going to spend serious profits on DC lobbyists. Income and bonuses for attorneys and lobbyists blew up to epic levels during the last decade and there is no sign that things are changing soon.
The influx of IT professionals, attorneys and public relations professionals to the DC region stressed the cost of living standards to a breaking point. Experienced computer engineers and corporate attorneys are not exactly cheap labor. Not to mention that currently employed professionals working for contractors and law firms were getting fantastic raises and bonuses.
If Congress grew a spine and decided to tackle our self-destructive federal government spending issues, we would notice the shockwaves hitting the DC region. Killing multi-billion dollar weapons and surveillance systems would lead to sub-contracting firms going out of business and the Big Boy firms (i.e. Lockheed Martin and others) forced to reduce staff by the THOUSANDS in the DC region alone. If Congress realized how much tax-payer money is wasted on private contractors, you might see many IT functions brought back to FT federal workers. Thus, more unemployed IT engineers and programmers once employed by contractors are filing for benefits.
If Congress grew another spine and enacted tough advocacy restrictions, you would see law firms and lobbying firms trim staff all over. There is way too much corporate money in politics right now and the DC law offices have been the biggest beneficiary of loose election regulations. Oh yeah, overturn the Citizens United SC decision too.
The bottom line: when you have fewer six-figure professional jobs in a city, you will see market prices adjust accordingly. Cheaper real estate. Cheaper restaurants. Cheaper groceries. Cheaper parking. And on and on. When more lawyers and IT engineers exit the DC job market, the property owners will have to lower their expectations of a bigger profit. Salaried workers will have to lower their expectations when it comes to raises and bonuses. If you are a job hunter, you will have to lower expectations when it comes to call backs and salary offers. This is an ugly transformation but it might be necessary in order to bring back some EQUILIBRIUM to the cost of living index in the DC region.
As you can understand, my message is quite unpopular with certain people in this forum who benefit directly from the DC Bubble Economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagotodc
Something will just simply have to give. Its just untenable. I don't think prices close in to DC are likely to change at all - there simply isnt any land left to develop and far too much is designated as historic for any real developments to take place on existing property, and there's obviously sufficient demand to keep the housing markets fueled for long long time. "Inside the beltway" already means something significant - you see it in real estate listings all the time. Location is the key to real estate but it seems pervesly true in DC. (this is part of the reason I chose to settle in the city itself).
I put all this together and I see really only a few solutions:
1) Companies will have to move to hyper-local mini offices. Instead of 10 stories in Arlington, you get 1 in bethesda, 1 in arlington, 1 in warrenton, 1 in falls church, etc.
2) Companies will have to further embrace work from home, telecommute or other virtual arrangements.
3) A series of fairly cataclysmic changes in our infrastructure and housing would be needed - something like a complete lifting of height restrictions in DC and Mclean and the subsequent rise of 40 story buildings - chain bridge becoming a 4 lanes in each direction bridge, crazy stuff like that that just isnt going to happen.
I just sit around at night drinking wine wondering about this stuff. Weird I know.
We found something near Harper's Ferry WV, with an hour and a half (supposed) train ride. Is that number realistic? Public transportation in most of Cali doesn't exist. But you could live 75 miles from somewhere and be there in an hour and 15 min. We've only been to DC once, and did not drive so we have no clue what drive times are, based on mileage.
Are you telecommuting from home most days and only going in occasionally? I guess it doesn't really matter. Yes, more like 2 hrs is a good estimate from Harpers Ferry. My brother in Leesburg takes public transportation to DuPont Circle and it's 1+ hr (once he gets to the station add 20min). If you can work on the train, no problem. I would suggest renting something out there before buying to test it out. You might find some area that more suits your wants and needs. Frederick area?
Harpers Ferry is beautiful but I couldn't imagine commuting everyday to the District from there but people do indeed do it. I think Calvert county is still a better option if one is commuting everyday but aesthetically Harpers Ferry totally beats Dunkirk.
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