Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Residential or hotel is the #1 type of development being built in Chinatown. This is also true for Mt. Vernon Triangle, Northwest One, NOMA, Union Market, Union Station, H Street, Capital Riverfront, Buzzard Point, SW Wharf, Waterfront Station, and the SW Eco District.
No disrespect, but you seem to be oblivious to D.C.'s current and future development pipeline. Central DC has shifted east. Central DC based on the pipeline and new zoning commission boundaries consists of Penn Quarter, Mt. Vernon Triangle, NOMA, Union Market, Union Station, SW Eco District, The Wharf, Waterfront Station, Capital Riverfront, and Buzzard Point.
Old City will include the older western parts of DC including Foggy Bottom, Dupont Circle, Midtown, and Golden Triangle which is where the office development you are referring to is located. I know for many of you that are new here, imagining what DC will be at full built out is difficult. Most people just see what they see today. The new central DC will have neighborhoods with the highest density DC has ever seen.
Nope not at all oblivious. I'm well aware of all the projects you listed. It's just with the exception of Mt. Vernon Triangle none of those areas are really well integrated into the downtown core.
Perhaps someday NoMa will grow together with the traditional downtown core, but that is a long way off. For that to happen most of the parking lots would need to be redeveloped and the existing Union Station/Judiciary Square Office District would need to be redeveloped into a mixed use development zone. The 395 project is basically a giant office park with a token 250 unit apartment building thrown in. The other developments south of the Mall are simply too far removed to ever be part of the seamless urban core. They might work in isolation as "urban villages", but there is simply too much office/institutional/parkland separating them from downtown to make them an extension of a "living downtown."
Mt. Vernon Triangle genuinely an extension of the traditional downtown core. The residential development is nice to see. But, even that has seen 6 new hulking office buildings take up all the property closest to Mt Vernon Square. Seems like a missed opportunity for a more residential oriented neighborhood.
Look we clearly have different visions for what we consider a living downtown. That is fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree. We both know DC very well and are very well informed about development in DC. We just happen to look at the same information and reach different conclusions.
Personally, I just don't think NoMa or even Mt Vernon Triangle is ever going to be an organic living urban neighborhood. More like a functional, somewhat bland, downtown adjacent mixed-use district.
Nope not at all oblivious. I'm well aware of all the projects you listed. It's just with the exception of Mt. Vernon Triangle none of those areas are really well integrated into the downtown core.
Perhaps someday NoMa will grow together with the traditional downtown core, but that is a long way off. For that to happen most of the parking lots would need to be redeveloped and the existing Union Station/Judiciary Square Office District would need to be redeveloped into a mixed use development zone. The 395 project is basically a giant office park with a token 250 unit apartment building thrown in. The other developments south of the Mall are simply too far removed to ever be part of the seamless urban core. They might work in isolation as "urban villages", but there is simply too much office/institutional/parkland separating them from downtown to make them an extension of a "living downtown."
Mt. Vernon Triangle genuinely an extension of the traditional downtown core. The residential development is nice to see. But, even that has seen 6 new hulking office buildings take up all the property closest to Mt Vernon Square. Seems like a missed opportunity for a more residential oriented neighborhood.
Look we clearly have different visions for what we consider a living downtown. That is fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree. We both know DC very well and are very well informed about development in DC. We just happen to look at the same information and reach different conclusions.
Personally, I just don't think NoMa or even Mt Vernon Triangle is ever going to be an organic living urban neighborhood. More like a functional, somewhat bland, downtown adjacent mixed-use district.
We will have to agree to disagree. You don't seem to know much about Northwest One. That's those parking lots you speak of. Also, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Northwest One, NOMA, and Union Market are all next to each other. Judiciary square is actually the outlier and lies to the south of all those neighborhoods. There is no possible way those neighborhoods won't be seamless when every inch of those neighborhoods will be highrise mixed use buildings. There are over 30,000 housing units coming to Mt. Vernon Triangle, NOMA, and Union Market. That level of density is on par with some Manhattan neighborhoods. You will see if you stick around long enough to see it come to fruition. Also, the Union Market neighborhood is going to be one of the most famous neighborhoods in the nation at full buildout. You heard it here first.
The comments you have made were also said about the parking lots in Mt. Vernon Triangle, NOMA, and H Street back in 2003. I can't fast forward 20 years for you, but DC is going to be very different in 20 years.
Also, the Union Market neighborhood is going to be one of the most famous neighborhoods in the nation at full buildout. You heard it here first.
Let's see....
Beverly Hills
Greenwich Village
East Village
SoHo
Tribeca
Back Bay
Harlem
Williamsburg
Wicker Park
French Quarter
The Mission
Castro
Lower East Side
Haight-Ashbury
Society Hill
Belair
Georgetown
Dupont Circle
Hollywood
Beacon Hill
South of 5th
South Boston
NoLita
Bedford-Stuyvesant
Brooklyn Heights
Park Slope
Capitol Hill (DC)
Capitol Hill (Seattle)
Buckhead
Chicago Gold Coast
Hyde Park
Koreatown
Fisherman's Wharf
Nob Hill
Sausalito
North Beach
Tenderloin
DUMBO
North End
Chelsea
Northern Liberties
Fort Greene
Bushwick
Yeah, I don't see Union Market getting on this list, like, ever. It may become the 4th or 5th most famous neighborhood in the DC area though.
Beverly Hills
Greenwich Village
East Village
SoHo
Tribeca
Back Bay
Harlem
Williamsburg
Wicker Park
French Quarter
The Mission
Castro
Lower East Side
Haight-Ashbury
Society Hill
Belair
Georgetown
Dupont Circle
Hollywood
Beacon Hill
South of 5th
South Boston
NoLita
Bedford-Stuyvesant
Brooklyn Heights
Park Slope
Capitol Hill (DC)
Capitol Hill (Seattle)
Buckhead
Chicago Gold Coast
Hyde Park
Koreatown
Fisherman's Wharf
Nob Hill
Sausalito
North Beach
Tenderloin
DUMBO
North End
Chelsea
Northern Liberties
Fort Greene
Bushwick
Yeah, I don't see Union Market getting on this list, like, ever. It may become the 4th or 5th most famous neighborhood in the DC area though.
We will see. Also, I'm talking about something along the lines of New York's Meatpacking District or Fisherman's Wharf in San Fran. I probably should have said district versus entire neighborhood since they are smaller.
We will see. Also, I'm talking about something along the lines of New York's Meatpacking District or Fisherman's Wharf in San Fran. I probably should have said district versus entire neighborhood since they are smaller.
It may very well end up being like these places (not too much like FW obviously since it's on a body of water) but I doubt it will ever be a famous neighborhood. I don't see why it would be any more famous than the newly developed area by Nats Park or the Wharf.
We will see. Also, I'm talking about something along the lines of New York's Meatpacking District or Fisherman's Wharf in San Fran. I probably should have said district versus entire neighborhood since they are smaller.
I know we are getting a little off track here. But, I can't see Union Market turning out like Meatpacking District. The meatpacking district is a dense mix of old 19th century warehouses that could be converted over into a very richly textured (if somewhat commercial) urban environment. Union Market on the other hand is drap warehouses that really aren't particularly charming. This will mostly be a ground up type re-development. See: O Street Market Place, CityCenter, CityVista, GW Whole Foods development. All better than what they replaced, but not particularly organic urban environments.
In any event, it is still probably 5 to 10 years off before there is really any residential critical mass to make it feel like a real neighborhood. Nonetheless, it is a great project and will be a huge improvement over what is there now.
I'm more surprised we never developed a Flushing or Sunset Park type immigrant neighborhoods in the outer-District neighborhoods. I get DC is expensive, but so is NYC, SF, Bos. All three of them have a bigger immigrant population than DC.
As mentioned, we have -- they're just outside the District line, since DC would fit inside New York City six times over.
Also, I agree that DC's office mid-rises squeeze out a lot of character, but the very small size of the District -- and its sharp density gradient, from downtown to single-family (row)houses just blocks away, with few intervening mid-rise residential areas -- perhaps make this inevitable.
I know we are getting a little off track here. But, I can't see Union Market turning out like Meatpacking District. The meatpacking district is a dense mix of old 19th century warehouses that could be converted over into a very richly textured (if somewhat commercial) urban environment. Union Market on the other hand is drap warehouses that really aren't particularly charming. This will mostly be a ground up type re-development. See: O Street Market Place, CityCenter, CityVista, GW Whole Foods development. All better than what they replaced, but not particularly organic urban environments.
In any event, it is still probably 5 to 10 years off before there is really any residential critical mass to make it feel like a real neighborhood. Nonetheless, it is a great project and will be a huge improvement over what is there now.
What do you define as an organic urban environment? An old building? Are you just in love with old architecture? I personally prefer new buildings.
Union market at full buildout will have a higher density than the Meatpacking district in NYC just as an FYI.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
