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DC is culturally and linguistically more like Baltimore and Philadelphia than Richmond. It is the lower end of the lower Northeast (Mid-Atlantic). The South starts below D.C.
Yeah but you have to compare orders of magnitude...and looking at the top 12 doesn't really make sense since some of those were amalgamated into their parent regions. The biggest shall we say English colonial city of the south was Charleston; Boston+Salem is twice as big. Baltimore is 2.5X as big. "Big cities" in 1820 were clearly a northern phenomena.
But I'm still fine if you want to say Baltimore was southern, historically: it was south of the Mason-Dixon which as I'm always pointing out in these threads, WAS as close to the official border N/S as there has ever been. I still think it was a special case; the last northern city as you headed south, albeit in the least southern state.
However, I don't think you can really apply a blanket statement like this, nowadays. As I've pointed out in other threads, I knew a LOT of moderate Republican or Democrats in central Maryland who joked that driving to Virginia was going into the south. I knew a guy for example, who moved from Ohio to do IT consulting in the DC area. He said he would never have moved to Virginia. And he was a pro-life Catholic republican! Baltimore city and county, Howard County, Montgomery and even Anne Arundel are WAY more Catholic, and WAY more Jewish than the NoVA suburbs. People there might, again, for the reason I do, consider Maryland de jure southern...because it is south of the Mason-Dixon, it is de facto Northern these days and has been for a long time.
OK, if a generation is a long time.
Quote:
way more Catholic
Right, all those Irish/Italian Catholics making the DC area northeastern. Crossing into Delaware County, Pennsylvania comes with a dramatic increase in Catholic numbers compared to adjacent parts of Maryland and the DC area. Southern Maryland is the real "Catholic" place in the state, and that is tied to the founding of the colony, which was southern.
Got my info from this county report search. Historically Black denomination numbers are incomplete.
In your map, Catholics represent a plurality and not a majority for most counties. Protestants outnumber Catholics in Maryland, though they are split by denominations.
"Most southerners would look at you sideways if you said DC was the south."
Wouldn't be the first time southerners didn't know their history LOL.
But that being said, I'm not saying it's southern, though it was historically a southern city. (or at least the Port of Georgetown and Alexandria, VA, were...) As I pointed out it's a special category that is neither southern nor northern. Which is what it was intended to be insofar as that was possible.
I am honestly confused. DC was intentionally placed in the South because of the compromise of 1790.
DC is culturally and linguistically more like Baltimore and Philadelphia than Richmond. It is the lower end of the lower Northeast (Mid-Atlantic). The South starts below D.C.
I used to think the same...
But Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia are in a different category than DC. Baltimore is a true border town. DC is no mans land but a lot of people from DC originally are COUNTRY!!!
But Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia are in a different category than DC. Baltimore is a true border town. DC is no mans land but a lot of people from DC originally are COUNTRY!!!
LOL, you just offended some people.
But I agree that Baltimore is more of a border town. DC? Not so much.
As for addressing the accents used by people in Baltimore: that is just an incredibly complex topic. More so than DC where so many people immigrated recently it's kind of hopeless to say, at least among whites, that it is anything but "generic American". Yes, some people have vaguely mid-Atlantic or even Tidewater Virginia-ish accents. But it is very splintered. I know rich kids from Towson (well, they aren't kids anymore, but they were when I met them in the mid 2000s and they were starting their first job) who went to places like Amherst for uni. and wouldn't be caught dead sounding even a little southern. OTOH some blue collar white guy in Glen Burnie, sure, some of those might still sound a little southern. The old money Baltimore doña from the start of this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snbW6hI8xuY has the kind of lilting, very light southern accent that I think is pure Baltimore. (although she actually lived in her family's "manor house" in Monkton) But an interesting thing I notice when speaking to people on the MARC train (regular rider for years) is many professional African-Americans in Baltimore seem to be accent neutral, or even have a slight Philadelphia sound to their voices...while the African-Americans I work with in DC, who are from DC, maintain the typical upper south African American dialect. So...it's an incredibly complex topic and accents have an element of the performative, especially in a place where there's a lot of mixing. People "code switch" as the linguists say.
^That lady was from the northern suburbs. I can hear the influence that you're talking about. The wealthier accent has less of the Mid-Atlantic tones (consonant dropping, etc.) so it's easier to tell with them
Hmm. That's interesting. Baltimore blacks seem to have distinct accents whether or not it's northern or southern. Philadelphians tend to sound more like NYers or neutral, and have slang words like "ock" that are more like NY.
But Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia are in a different category than DC. Baltimore is a true border town. DC is no mans land but a lot of people from DC originally are COUNTRY!!!
Baltimore isn't a border town...it has Southern influence but it has more in common with Philadelphia than Richmond. As far as DC goes, I know many people from DC and none of them are country. Also, none of them have Southern accents and the majority of them were born and raised in DC.
But Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia are in a different category than DC. Baltimore is a true border town. DC is no mans land but a lot of people from DC originally are COUNTRY!!!
DC is far from country but MD, DC, DE and VA's brand of Mid-Atlantic is in another category to those with experience with the true Northeast (as you've mentioned). Whatever mixed traits one finds doesn't stop it from being a great city and metro.
DC is far from country but MD, DC, DE and VA's brand of Mid-Atlantic is in another category to those with experience with the true Northeast (as you've mentioned). Whatever mixed traits one finds doesn't stop it from being a great city and metro.
Bruh I'm from DC originally and I can tell you firsthand that some Washingtonians are country as hell, like North Carolina type of country. DC is a weird a city. The white population is transplanted or general American is the black population is half city and half country, like Chicago.
DC is far from country but MD, DC, DE and VA's brand of Mid-Atlantic is in another category to those with experience with the true Northeast (as you've mentioned). Whatever mixed traits one finds doesn't stop it from being a great city and metro.
VA isn't the Mid Atlantic outside of NOVA.
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