What do you all think of I-1098? (Olympia: income, sales tax)

[Xanathos]

1) It violates the state's constitution, which clearly states Washington cannot have an income tax. This is why the politicians have labeled it an "excise tax". But no matter how they word it, it will never stand up to a court challenge, even if it passes.

2) They use a carrot-on-a-stick approach. They say it's to fund education and the like. But what they fail to point out is that it's only required to fund education for 2 years. After 2 years, they can use the money gained from it on anything they like.

3) Our politicians in this state have no clue how to operate within a budget. All of us in the citizenry have to, so why are the politicians exempt? Their spending is out of control. Rather than simply reduce their spending or bring the ridiculous government pension plans in line, they continually come to the trough asking an already cash-strapped public to give them even more.

4) It's promoting class warfare. They've tried putting state income tax on the table a lot of times before, and it's been struck down every time. The angle they're trying this time is "it won't be a tax on you, just someone else. I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with people crying for taxes...on someone else. People want every amenity and benefit under the sun, but they want someone else to pay for it.

5) It opens the door and lets the wolves in. Do you trust the politicians here in Washington? I know I sure don't. If this passes, in 2 years they'll lower the threshold to income tax to 125k, and then shortly after that 75k, and then 50k, and before you know it everybody has an income tax. You know this will happen.

6) Say this thing passes, the court challenge fails, and it's implemented. Then what? The politicians will just find a way to spend even MORE money, and they'll be back at us, hat in hand, within 5 years telling us that they need more money from us or else they'll have to lay off teachers or firemen or some other nonsense. And w hen we say "what about all the money we gave you in 2010?" they'll respond with the blank stare of a dairy cow.

7) Part of the reason we don't have an income tax is because we have one of, if not the, highest sales tax in the entire country. We have high property taxes. We have high utility taxes. We have a ridiculously high gas tax, etc.

8) Do you trust the politicians to not increase the tax rate in short order? Here's a great example: Remember when we overwhelmingly voted to limit the cost of car tabs to 30 bucks? Did you pay 30 dollars for your tags last time? I know I sure didn't. Matter of fact, I just got tabs, and it cost me $110. That's not 30.

9) Wealthy people are savvy people. The truly wealthy (we're talking the ridiculously wealthy) will simply set up residence homes in Nevada or some other state with no income tax and use it as a tax shelter to avoid paying the income tax, anyways. Which goes further into the thing about the polis lowering the tax threshold. They'll keep lowering it because they'll claim they weren't getting as much as they "anticipated".

10) The other carrot they're selling is the reduction in property taxes. I'm sorry, but reducing an increase is not a reduction. And those property taxes will just ramp right back up to their previous levels with or without voter support the moment politicians claim they have a budget shortfall (which will be about, oh, 2 years).

11) It's very telling that the biggest money behind this initiative are the government unions. They want this so they can keep demanding their annual 3% salary increases in spite of a spluttering economy, and so they can keep receiving their "salary for life" pension plans that none of the rest of us get. It's a giant pyramid, and they're worried because it's starting to collapse. I saw a news article yesterday about 10 states that were on the verge of pension plan bankruptcy. There were some states where it was estimated that by 2020, funding the government pension plans were going to account for well over FIFTY PERCENT of the state's costs. To pay for people that aren't even in the workforce anymore!

No. We need to tell these politicians to do like the rest of us and learn how to live within a budget, and only spend what they can afford.

It's a horrible idea all around, and anyone who votes for it should, frankly, be ashamed.

[nfdsouza2001]

The Legislature did a great job when they threw out the voter initiative to increase taxes. What will stop them from overriding our wishes and going below the $200000/400000 limit. Here is another scenario: you have a patient on DSHS wanting to see a specialist, the state pays 60 cents on the dollar to treat that patient as a result you have a wait to see the specialist. Now the specialist in on the verge of going over his/her 200000 limit and will have to pay the income tax. What is going to stop the doctor from seeing patients so that they don't go over the 200000 income limit. Who will take care of that patient?

[Oldgoat38]

Bravo Xanathos!!!

I wish most voters would get it. Unfortunately, they don't. As Dorothy Parker quipped, "The masses are asses." They believe the politician's spin. It's _always_ "we'll have to lay off teachers and police".

Vote 'em out when they come up for re-election.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by Oldgoat38

Bravo Xanathos!!!

I wish most voters would get it. Unfortunately, they don't. As Dorothy Parker quipped, "The masses are asses." They believe the politician's spin. It's _always_ "we'll have to lay off teachers and police".

Vote 'em out when they come up for re-election.

It's a classic shell game the politicians pull. They have their budget and the first things they pay out of the budget are all the 2nd and 3rd tier priority items such as union employee salary increases, feasibility studies, IT infrastructure upgrades, state vehicles, etc.

And then they go to the public and say "we have no money! Give us more or else we'll fire the firemen and lay off teachers! Little Johnny will be in a classroom with 74 other students!"

Why? Because they know if they came to us asking for tax increases or more money under the threat of them having to not buy new cars for the governor's staff or being forced to deny a nature study on the mating habits of some kind of frog or so they can continue to pay 80 grand a year for the pension of some guy who retired 25 years ago, the public would just shrug their collective shoulders.

People need to wise up and put an end to ALL new taxes. The state pulls in enough money. They need to learn how to spend it better.

[nfdsouza2001]

This afternoon I heard about a school district in DC who invited 36,000 parents to the parent teacher conferences. The parents 1st complained they did not have transportation then they did not want to buy dinner then they wanted childcare after all their concerns were addressed in providing all they asked for, less than 3000 showed up. If the parents of the kids are not interested in their own children's education, how can the school districts ask for more money and be the childrens' parents.

[rkcarguy]

The biggest thing to realize here, is that it is a TRAP!
Once the legislation gets passed, the legislature can modify the verbage WITHOUT voter approval!
So people that don't realize that they can do that..say they vote it in...then the next legislative session comes along.
Guess what?
The "income tax shall apply to those making $200,000 or more" is lined out, with "see attached".
A chart has been written in with how much % of your check they want for each given income range! I have seen it happen to legislation that effected my workplace first hand and it will happen if 1098 is passed.
We don't need this. It is already expensive enough to live here, with lower than average compensation by comparison.

[superdeluxe]

Originally Posted by specificnorthwest

what do you all think of I-1098, specifically with regards to how it may impact businesses & individuals looking to relocate here?

Voting it down, and no I do not make 200K per year.

[superdeluxe]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

The biggest thing to realize here, is that it is a TRAP!
.

http://relentlesspoa.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/ackbar1.gif (broken link)

[rkcarguy]

I'm bumping this out of shock that so many people here in the post were for it. It's been stated that "any and all states which enacted an income tax-have ALWAYS expanded it to the other income brackets".
So you dummies thinking your going to poke the rich in the eye by voting for this tax, are just sticking the fork in yourself and many others in this state. From business closures, to the influx of fixed income people which will stop, this will have a MASSIVE negative impact on the state from housing to heatlhcare(jobs).

[Xanathos]

From what I've read, this new tax attempt is trailing in the polls by something like 15 points. There's no way it passes. What saddens me is that there are actually so many people who thought it was a good idea.