"Pacific Northwest" term (Yakima, Puyallup: transplants, home, purchase)

[CrazyDonkey]

Where the term "Pacific Northwest" (PNW) comes from and what it corresponds to:

1. "Columbia District" was the British name for the territory drained by the Columbia River, corresponding to the "Columbia Department" of the Hudson's Bay Company. Parts of what became north-central British Columbia, outside of the Columbia drainage, were designated as the "New Caledonia District".

2. "Oregon Country" (or "Territory", generic) refers to disputed territory west of the Louisiana Purchase (1803), north of the 1819 Spanish Treaty Line, and British Columbia (1858). It was jointly occupied by Britain/U.S. from the Treaty of 1818 to the Oregon Treaty of 1846, when the boundary at the 49th Parallel was established. Note: "Oregon" was the name given to the mythical "River of the West", before the Columbia River was discovered. "Oregon" was generally used by Americans and "Columbia" by the British to designate the same geographical area (or "territory").

3. "Oregon Territory" (generic) was originally synonymous with the "Oregon Country", but following the Oregon Treaty of 1846, came to refer to that part of the "Oregon Country" incorporated as a U.S. Territory (1848), minus British Columbia. It included all of the current states of Oregon, Washington, and Idaho, and parts of Montana and Wyoming (west of the Continental Divide).

4. In 1853, "Washington Territory" was spit off from the "Oregon Territory", north of the Columbia River and the 46th Parallel. When Oregon became a state (1859), the remainder of the Oregon Territory was incorporated into Washington Territory. Note: Originally, the proposed name for the new territory was "Columbia", but legislators in the nation's capitol switched to "Washington", to honor the first president and, ostensibly, to avoid confusion with the District of Columbia (but creating confusion between the city and state ever since).

5. "Northwest Territory" (or "The Northwest") referred to the "Territory Northwest of the River Ohio", which was land assigned to the U.S. in the Treaty of Paris (1783) prior to being incorporated as a U.S. territory (1787).

6. With the splitting of Oregon and Washington, "Oregon" no longer could serve as a regional designation for the northwest region of the U.S., with the "Pacific Northwest" eventually emerging as such a designation, with "Pacific" added in order to distinguish it from the earlier designation of the "Northwest" or "Great Northwest" (Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio). The Pacific Northwest sometimes is expanded to also include British Columbia, roughly covering the same territory as the original "Oregon Country". Note: I have not been able to pin down the earliest usage of the term, so the latter designation cannot be excluded from being the original designation.

7. The "Great Pacific Northwest" can simply designate the Pacific Northwest, with a superlative added, or a larger geographical region, comprising Washington, Oregon, Idaho, British Columbia, Yukon, and Alaska (and sometimes Montana).

[Seacove]

I would think the term would be "Greater Pacific Northwest" meaning larger in order to include states such as Idaho or Montana portions. Since Idaho and Montana are in no way connected to the Pacific ocean, it's quite a leap to include them in the Pacific Northwest. But Greater Pacific Northwest, would imply expanding that to include such distant areas.

Culturally, Idaho is much more like Wyoming and Montana than anything to do with the Pacific coast.

[Syringaloid]

Originally Posted by Seacove

I would think the term would be "Greater Pacific Northwest" meaning larger in order to include states such as Idaho or Montana portions. Since Idaho and Montana are in no way connected to the Pacific ocean, it's quite a leap to include them in the Pacific Northwest. But Greater Pacific Northwest, would imply expanding that to include such distant areas.

Culturally, Idaho is much more like Wyoming and Montana than anything to do with the Pacific coast.

Idaho is connected to the Pacific in that salmon spawn in Idaho, swim to the ocean and then swim back home to where they spawned in Idaho to begin the life cycle again and then eventually die where they were born. The rivers of Idaho also feed the Columbia River and Idaho has the furthest inland sea port in North America which in Lewiston.

Culturally, Idaho, and large areas of of Washington and Oregon are similar as well as areas of Idaho are similar to the culture in WY, MT and UT. Boise is more akin to Portland than it is to Billings or Cheyenne.

[PS90]

Thanks for the history. That's always very interesting to me.

It would be much more reliable with references, though.

Here's some (from a quick Google search, don't know how reputable the websites are):

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3401803127.html

The Northwest! What is it? - Go Northwest! A Travel Guide

http://teacher.scholastic.com/schola...11-REGIONS.pdf (for kids, but still a good map)

Note that nothing in CrazyDonkey's report, or these references defines the PNW as limited to Western Washington and Western Oregon.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by Syringaloid

Idaho is connected to the Pacific in that salmon spawn in Idaho, swim to the ocean and then swim back home to where they spawned in Idaho to begin the life cycle again and then eventually die where they were born. The rivers of Idaho also feed the Columbia River and Idaho has the furthest inland sea port in North America which in Lewiston.

Culturally, Idaho, and large areas of of Washington and Oregon are similar as well as areas of Idaho are similar to the culture in WY, MT and UT. Boise is more akin to Portland than it is to Billings or Cheyenne.

That's as logical as saying Colorado should be grouped with Arizona because of the Colorado River. I think Idaho just wants to be part of the Pacific Northwest. It doesn't make it true. Northwest, okay, but not Pacific Northwest. Boise is not akin to Portland. It looks like Reno, Nevada.

Originally Posted by PS90

Note that nothing in CrazyDonkey's report, or these references defines the PNW as limited to Western Washington and Western Oregon.

But logically, Western Washington and Western Oregon are what is really connected to the Pacific ocean, specifically the Pacific Northwest.

From your own link:

"...the heart of the Northwest embraces the states of Washington and Oregon. In reference to these two, and sometimes also British Columbia, you are likely to hear the term "Pacific Northwest".

http://www.gonorthwest.com/Visitor/about/northwest.htm

[Syringaloid]

Originally Posted by Seacove

That's as logical as saying Colorado should be grouped with Arizona because of the Colorado River. I think Idaho just wants to be part of the Pacific Northwest. It doesn't make it true. Northwest, okay, but not Pacific Northwest. Boise is not akin to Portland. It looks like RENO.

Usually Colorado and Arizona are grouped together anyways because of the Four Corners.

I don't think Idaho wants to be a part of the Pacific Northwest in the silly childish way you are referring to. Idaho is part of the Northwest, it's just the way it is. Generally the Pacific Northwest refers to the coastal areas.

I've lived in Portland and Boise and they do have similarities regarding lifestyle and the people. I was not referring to the cities looking alike. There are a lot of Portland transplants to Boise for good or bad.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Syringaloid

Idaho is connected to the Pacific in that salmon spawn in Idaho, swim to the ocean and then swim back home to where they spawned in Idaho to begin the life cycle again and then eventually die where they were born. The rivers of Idaho also feed the Columbia River and Idaho has the furthest inland sea port in North America which in Lewiston.

Culturally, Idaho, and large areas of of Washington and Oregon are similar as well as areas of Idaho are similar to the culture in WY, MT and UT. Boise is more akin to Portland than it is to Billings or Cheyenne.

I agree with your first paragraph - it's a valid reason for including at least part of ID.

But if we start "fudging" regional lines based on the attitudes/cultures of people who live there, then these definitions will never be more than fleeting, arbitrary monikers.

Just IMO, I don't understand the cultural relevance to a geographical system of defining regions. Any cultural similarities now are FAR different than they were when these geographical regions were defined, and are likely to change drastically again at some point in the future.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Seacove

But logically, Western Washington and Western Oregon are what is really connected to the Pacific ocean, specifically the Pacific Northwest.

Ummm, I don't get it. So, do we define the PACIFIC Northwest as just the towns of Grey's Harbor, Westport, and the other towns right on the coast? How is Issaquah or Puyallup connected to the Pacific, but Yakima isn't? Because of a mountain range? - I don't think any definition of regional nomenclature is strictly limited to mountain borders.

And, there are probably some towns in Eastern Washington, like Wenatchee - that constantly relies on the Columbia to haul fruit to the Pacific, that are more connected to the Pacific Ocean than some of the inland towns in Western Washington.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by Syringaloid

I don't think Idaho wants to be a part of the Pacific Northwest in the silly childish way you are referring to. Idaho is part of the Northwest, it's just the way it is. Generally the Pacific Northwest refers to the coastal areas.

Yes, the title of this thread is the Pacific Northwest and as you state, the Pacific Northwest refers to the coastal areas.

[Syringaloid]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Yes, the title of this thread is the Pacific Northwest and as you state, the Pacific Northwest refers to the coastal areas.

And the OP's post also refers to states and areas within the greater region away from the coast.