The problems with light pollution (Seattle, Bellingham: buy, live in, designs)

[pikabike]

We do agree on some aspects of lighting. The difference is that my definition of Live And Let Live includes preventing excessive light from reaching well away from the owner's property, because then he or she is not allowing the neighbor(s) to have their areas free of such light.

This is similar to smoking cigarettes. The smoke does not stay where the smoker is.

The neighbor can still have his yard lit, but he can minimize its intrusiveness by directing the light TO his yard rather than outward and upward. There is also such a thing as unnecessarily bright, where brighter light stops being helpful and actually becomes detrimental to safety, not to mention other considerations. Blinding glare keeps a witness from even discerning where an intruder or obstacle is.

We are all polluters by dint of existing. But there are ways to reduce our negative effects.

[Ultrarunner]

I'm with you...

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

Originally Posted by pikabike

We do agree on some aspects of lighting. The difference is that my definition of Live And Let Live includes preventing excessive light from reaching well away from the owner's property, because then he or she is not allowing the neighbor(s) to have their areas free of such light.

This is similar to smoking cigarettes. The smoke does not stay where the smoker is.

The neighbor can still have his yard lit, but he can minimize its intrusiveness by directing the light TO his yard rather than outward and upward. There is also such a thing as unnecessarily bright, where brighter light stops being helpful and actually becomes detrimental to safety, not to mention other considerations. Blinding glare keeps a witness from even discerning where an intruder or obstacle is.

We are all polluters by dint of existing. But there are ways to reduce our negative effects.

+++1, pikabike, can't rep you again. This is exactly how I feel as well.

"Live & Let Live" (overused phrase on the Washington forum) gets confused with "my way or the highway" too many times.

Ultrarunner, you may own property in Washington, but you live in Oakland, CA. If I lived there, I would want all the light I could get. But we're talking about rural Washington...do you really want Washington, or even Olympia, to be just like Oakland, California??

[xPlorer48]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

More than just streetlights, don't we want the buildings lit at night, the cityscapes, the architecture, the bridges, etc? Really?

No, we don't. Lighting uses energy which burns fossil fuels and dams our rivers. Maybe you should live in the city if like the luminous landscape.

[Diana Holbrook]

No, we don't.

Since they are all lit now, and the vast majority would complain if they were not, I am not sure you can use the word "we" in that context.

Thanks for the suggestion on where I should live. I'll think about it, but I don't think my horses and goats would like it in the city. We like it where we are!

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by MarciaMarshaMarcia

"Live & Let Live" (overused phrase on the Washington forum) gets confused with "my way or the highway" too many times.

Indeed!

Ultrarunner, you may own property in Washington, but you live in Oakland, CA. If I lived there, I would want all the light I could get. But we're talking about rural Washington...do you really want Washington, or even Olympia, to be just like Oakland, California??

I'm intrigued... What does that mean, Marcia? What would make you want more light?

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Light is safety... going back to the ancient greeks keeping bonfires on rocky cliffs to modern day lighthouses.

Light is art... just as the New York Skyline, Seattle of the magnificent SF Bay...

I love seeing the Mormon Temple all lit up high in the Oakland Hills... without light, it would be just another black hole...

Many bay area peaks have beacons for safety and as navigational aids.

I remember being out to sea and the joy that would overcome the entire crew at the first glimpse of civilization...

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

Agreed.

The scope of this thread is light pollution. I don't think that anyone thinks that ALL light is bad, or that we should be using torches on fire if we actually need to see anything at night.

The point is that scattered light is creating wasteful glare and using unnecessary electricity is bad and can and should be mitigated, since it does not help with safety or improve anyone's quality of life.

It has nothing to do with focused light that is used for specific purposes.

Saying that light is good because lighthouses use it to help ships is like arguing that cars are good and essential for modern life, so the smog and pollution that they create is good and should be encouraged. i.e. We should be constantly striving to reduce vehicle waste and pullution, just as we should be constantly striving to reduce the light pollution that is a waste product of the light that we do use.

[mvalentinus]

I, too, love the Night Sky and would love to see the Milky Way outside my home. I recently moved to a Continuing Care Retirement Community in Lacey, WA. Generally speaking, the lighting in residential areas here is relatively benign. But, we moved into an independent living residence that was brand new and contemporary, which features four tall floodlights that light up our night sky, dimming even the full moons. Management here says they will look into dimming the lights but will not turn them off, even though the porch lighting provides ample light for people walking around at night to see where they are going. Management has assured me that the floodlights are within city and county code, and I'm sure they are. But, the issue of light pollution is not on the table in Lacey, even though the City of Tumwater just approved a light pollution ordinance 8 November 2023, after a 10-year campaign.

I love what you had to say about light and visibility, and I'd love to quote you because it aligns with my experience as well. And, I'd like to connect with others here in Washington, and especially Thurston County, that are working on this issue.

[MechAndy]

Well wow, this sure is an old thread and I think it is worth revisiting.

I am not a fan of light pollution but I see the need for proper lighting for safety.
Until recently I like several of my neighbors had a few big ass lights that could luminate a section of road.

I recently installed a new security system that also included replacing several very old exterior mercury vapor flood lights.
Those lights could possibly laminate a large marijuana grow room.
They were an obnoxious eyesore not to mention the extreme inefficient waste electricity they caused.

The new system I installed (thank you Amazon Black Friday sale )is all LED, directional, motion sensor operated and uses a small fraction of the electricity that the old one did.
It will also probably pay for itself in a couple years to boot.

I replied to this necro thread to say we can do better on light pollution with the new lighting technology that is currently out there.

[banneddanna]

Brightness hurts my eyes. I prefer soothing candlelight.