Gun laws, front license plates, & race ways

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by finnegan

Some minorities are more dangerous period, and the data bears that out. Alaska UCR can be found here: http://www.dps.alaska.gov/statewide/...R/UCR_2014.pdf and I have to correct myself on the Alaskan Native numbers after looking at a few more years worth of data. It would be more correct to say they commit half the murders whites do, not half of all murders. The number appears to range between 30 and 40% over the past several years, but the represent only 15% of the population.

You sure like to put words in other peoples' mouths, don't you. Where did I say minorities were killing poor little innocent white Alaskans? Alaska doesn't break down victim/offender relationship by race like the FBI UCR does. But since you brought it up, blacks kill whites at a rate that is almost 13 times higher than the rate whites kill blacks according to FBI stats. In reality, the stats are even more skewed than that because the FBI only parses offender and victim data by White, Black, Other and a small category of Unknown. The Other category includes Asians, American Indians, Native Alaskans, Hawaiian and Pacific Islander and anything else not mentioned. The point being, the one word you don't see among those columns is Hispanic. According to the FBI, Hispanic is not a race, but an ethnicity. It can be difficult to discern exactly what the offender and victim numbers are for Hispanics because it is tallied in a separate section. For data reporting purposes, Hispanics are lumped into the White race for the most part (Mexicans, Cubans, etc.), with a small minority falling into the Black race (Haitians and some other Caribbean islanders). Hispanics make up about 16% of the population in the country and they commit homicide and other violent crimes at a rate much higher than non-Hispanic whites. Where blacks overall commit violent crimes at a rate that is 8.8 times higher than non-Hispanic whites, Hispanics in total committed violent crimes 6.5 times more often. The FBI data doesn't allow for analysis of offender/victim racial relationship though. It can tell you how many of the white and black homicides (or other violent felonies) were actually committed by a Hispanic, but it can't tell you the racial or ethnic identify of their victim. I'd imagine its not too dissimilar to the black/white ratios.

So, yes...overall, non-Hispanic whites are victimized by certain ethnic minorities far more often than the reverse. When the numbers are so low, such as in Alaska, its pretty much irrelevant though.

That's the data. You can look it up all you want and do your own math, but facts don't lie. Parsing data is necessary to understand a fuller picture. Merely saying "gun deaths" does not reflect a true picture of danger, and who is killing who, or where these killings are taking place.

You're already backing away from your own previous facts. First it was native Alaskan Indians commit over half of all murders in Alaska. Combine that with 10-20% blacks (from only 3% population), that leaves whites only committing 30% of all homicides even though they represent over 80% of the Alaskan population. When I asked for data, you back off and say it's half of what whites commit. Big difference and probably not true either. Then you list other minorities including Hispanics, Haitians and Cubans?

I've deleted what I've written, wallowing in what you've written is not worth it. But I do believe you are a huge gun supporter.

[finnegan]

Originally Posted by Seacove

You're already backing away from your own previous facts. First it was native Alaskan Indians commit over half of all murders in Alaska. Combine that with 10-20% blacks (from only 3% population), that leaves whites only committing 30% of all homicides even though they represent over 80% of the Alaskan population. When I asked for data, you back off and say it's half of what whites commit. Big difference and probably not true either. Then you list other minorities including Hispanics, Haitians and Cubans?

I've deleted what I've written, wallowing in what you've written is not worth it. But I do believe you are a huge gun supporter.

Don't be lazy and look up the data yourself and draw your own conclusions. I provided you with the link to Alaska's UCR. The FBI's UCR and the relevant data can be found on sheet 20, year on year. Try a Google search. I hear Google is a good way to find information. For suicide and accidental gun death information, look it up on the CDC. Either that or keep your liberal head buried in the sand and go on believing only what you want to believe, just like every other ******* does.

It remains true that the danger posed to others by people who own guns is artificially bloated by including suicide statistics. Suicide by gun outnumbers homicide by gun by a nearly 2 to 1 margin (21,000 suicide to 11,000 homicide, 2013 numbers...here's your link: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf). Accidents only represent between 1% and 1.5% of gun deaths most years. So the true number that represents danger to others posed by someone with a gun should be more in the 11,000 range, not 34,000.

Until you parse the data and take out suicide by gun and justifiable homicide you can't arrive at an actual number that represents the true risk to you and others that gun ownership and gun carrying represents, unless you claim that someone taking their own life or someone lawfully defending themselves represents some undue danger to you. The gun death data should be confined to intentional homicide and accidental homicide. Do you disagree? And if so, why do you disagree?

Why I am bringing up other crime statistics like race and ethnicity is to take a closer look at that 11,000 intentional homicides. You, like your liberal friends, like to paint legal gun owners and carriers as the problem and they are often the target of your venom. Maybe there is an argument that they do represent too much of a danger, but you'll have a hard time convincing anyone if you keep using unfiltered and unparsed data that includes suicide and ignores inner-city gang violence and the like. Gun-toting Tea Partiers generally speaking aren't black, you should be the first to glom on to that notion since I'm sure that you, like all your liberal friends, assume that Tea Party people are all a bunch of racists and wouldn't have any black people in their ranks. So doesn't it stand to reason that if you want to assess how much danger a 2nd Amendment loving Tea Partier represents to you that you probably shouldn't include inner-city gang violence by minorities among your evidence?

[finnegan]

Originally Posted by Seacove

But I do believe you are a huge gun supporter.

A huge gun supporter....hmmm...let's see.

I am a huge constitutional rights supporter, which includes the 2nd amendment. Wanna debate the 2nd amendment?

I believe that anyone who is not legally prohibited from owning a gun and wishes to should be able to own a gun, whether for protection or recreation. I believe that anyone who is averse to guns should not be forced to own one. See? There. If you don't want to own a gun, I won't force you to. I'd ask that you not attempt to force me to give mine up just because you don't like them. Fair enough?

One day, if all guns are banned worldwide, I'll give mine up too so long as everyone else on the planet gives theirs up first. The reason I won't give mine up first is because bad people have this funny habit of not obeying the law, and so long as they possess the means to do me harm, I will exercise my right to retain the means to defend myself. And you and people like you who mean to come after my guns first can go **** up a rope. Go get the bad guys' guns first.

In the meantime, any effort, any new law that restricts my right to own a gun makes about as much sense as trying to reduce DUI by prohibiting sober people from owning a car.


And one more request; in any argument you make about how dangerous guns are, I'd ask that you use only RELEVANT data and stop bloating and spinning numbers to paint inaccurate pictures.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by finnegan

A huge gun supporter....hmmm...let's see.

I am a huge constitutional rights supporter, which includes the 2nd amendment. Wanna debate the 2nd amendment?

I believe that anyone who is not legally prohibited from owning a gun and wishes to should be able to own a gun, whether for protection or recreation. I believe that anyone who is averse to guns should not be forced to own one. See? There. If you don't want to own a gun, I won't force you to. I'd ask that you not attempt to force me to give mine up just because you don't like them. Fair enough?

One day, if all guns are banned worldwide, I'll give mine up too so long as everyone else on the planet gives theirs up first. The reason I won't give mine up first is because bad people have this funny habit of not obeying the law, and so long as they possess the means to do me harm, I will exercise my right to retain the means to defend myself. And you and people like you who mean to come after my guns first can go **** up a rope. Go get the bad guys' guns first.

In the meantime, any effort, any new law that restricts my right to own a gun makes about as much sense as trying to reduce DUI by prohibiting sober people from owning a car.

And one more request; in any argument you make about how dangerous guns are, I'd ask that you use only RELEVANT data and stop bloating and spinning numbers to paint inaccurate pictures.

Relevant? You mean like blaming other races for gun related deaths before admitting your information was wrong? Or discounting deaths related to suicides because you've decided they don't count? Bloating numbers like saying Alaskan Indians are responsible for over half of the homicides in Alaska before taking it back when asked to prove it? Your earlier screed exposed a lot more than you may realize.

[finnegan]

Please explain to me how someone committing suicide "counts" where your safety is concerned.

My "screed" is based upon documented facts, of which I admitted and corrected the error concerning Alaskan Natives. Moderator cut: see note

Suicides don't represent a danger to you regardless of the method used. Why is that so hard to admit?

"Blaming" different races for gun-related deaths is based upon actual, documented facts. Black males commit 52% of all homicides, and a great many of those are committed by people who illegally obtained or are illegally possessing a firearm or were using the gun during the commission of some other crime. As such, they do NOT represent the concealed-carry and other gun owners that you want to Moderator cut: see note

I've presented facts, which has exposed nothing except my ability to find them and my willingness to admit when I've made an error.

You're weird.