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I lived and payed taxes in California, Nevada, Colorado, Idaho, British Columbia, Washington...and looked really hard at moving to Oregon.
We had a moderate income with a low consumption lifestyle relative to most folks. By far, Washington has been the cheapest state to live it. Most taxes in Washington are voluntary in the sense they are related to your life choices. Even the property taxes are lower than most other states.
If you own a business remember the B&O tax is on GROSS not NET receipts so it makes it very difficult to avoid business taxes.
In other states income taxes and sales taxes on items such as food make it hard to avoid paying taxes. Oregon is in a league of its own. I still don't know how anybody lives in Oregon or what they spend their tax money on!!
If your into consumption of consumer goods Oregon or Montana would probably be a better bet. If you live a frugal lifestyle, Washington is dirt cheap.
Good point, don't buy a bunch of useless SH@#$% and you won't be affected by washington state taxes.
Maybe we know the same couple in their 80s... it sounds like them except for the cruises... they live very modestly... I didn't think to mention them before. My other references were to retired military that settled in WA and are now being squeezed out.
I know of many couples who worked until the day they died. Nah, that's in the near future, when nobody's going to be retiring because they were forced to give previous generations a better life. I don't think anyone should get a free ride at the expense of someone else, not even some modest-living couple in their 80s trying to cling on to their property memories, vets or not. Vets got lots of other rewards. They don't need to be continuously rewarded.
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This couple had planned on living out their days in their home and and I do feel sorry for them... they were unable to have children and yet 50% of the taxes they've paid since 1946 goes to schools...
Imagine what their life would have been like had no children been born to anyone after this couple reached adulthood. Then you realize that they did benefit greatly from those schools.
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I ended up paying exactly what the assessed value was within 10k
That's unusual for a 2005 purchase. Most probably paid $100K over the assessed value, for a $500K house, say.
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That's easy... It was voter initiative 747 that was passed back in 2001 by the voters.
Looks like Eyman didn't follow all the rules. I remember one of his initiative's was 2-in-1, and therefore got shot down in court. In his early days he was still naive to the process.
I have an idea: Limit the tax bill due to not more than 10% over the previous year, and if the assessment is much higher than that, have the remainder due when the house is sold.
Good idea. I could support giving seniors breaks on their bills in exchange for a 90+% death tax. Any system where everyone pays their fair share (save some disabled) is better than the unsustainable welfare system we have now. Our system requires fast-increasing population now, a Ponzi scheme that should collapse within a few decades, if it isn't already.
Good idea. I could support giving seniors breaks on their bills in exchange for a 90+% death tax. Any system where everyone pays their fair share (save some disabled) is better than the unsustainable welfare system we have now. Our system requires fast-increasing population now, a Ponzi scheme that should collapse within a few decades, if it isn't already.
I've worked in the EU right after college and had a chance to experience day to day life in Austria...
NO ONE looses property or moves because of Property Taxes...
Property Taxes are quite reasonable and private property and ownership is seen a pillar of a stable society... some of my colleagues lived in homes that had passed from generation to generation since the 1400's.
I'm all for a pay as you go system and why should people have a free ride? In fact, people that use public transit should pay the full cost of these systems... and that goes for all aspects of our society...
Owning a piece of property is not a free ride... paying 3 times the property tax of another simply because your home has a nice view/setting because the your good stewardship should not become a hardship simply because someone down the road has lots of money to throw around...
Washington even collects a "Sales Tax" everytime a property changes hands... maybe, we should extend an inventory tax to the goods people have in their homes... makes just about as much sense as a yearly tax only those that own property have to pay...
Paying your own way should extend to all aspects... if I have a fire and the fire department arrives... I would have no problem paying for the service... you can even get insurance for this... same goes for 911 ambulance service... school buses and most of all... schools. Since public schools consume the greatest portion of property tax without regard to benefit received... at least have a voucher system that has a proven track record, as in Washington DC. Isn't it true that some 40% of WA High School Students fail to graduate and yet we keep sending money to support this failed system?
I believe in an American as you do... people should pay their own way and should not get a free ride by picking the pockets of others...
A nation that forces it's elderly to move because of arbitrary application of taxation based on some one's opinion of value is the antithesis of Fair...
I have no problem with a tax on earnings or even a tax on consumption... an individual does have some control of their earning and spending... but, I will never acquiesce to a State that can't even provide a modicum of predictability in it's property tax system... I will continue sounding the alarm in deed and through action. How can a tax that the payer can't even determine or anticiapte be Fair? I know exactly what the tax is when a go to the store... this is Fair.
I ask... is it Fair that one Judge can over ride the will of the voters?
Maybe WA no income tax policy is set up so everyday people subsidize the Rich?
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 04-23-2009 at 02:28 PM..
I know of many couples who worked until the day they died. Nah, that's in the near future, when nobody's going to be retiring because they were forced to give previous generations a better life. I don't think anyone should get a free ride at the expense of someone else, not even some modest-living couple in their 80s trying to cling on to their property memories, vets or not. Vets got lots of other rewards. They don't need to be continuously rewarded.
Sounds like my family... no one every retires... they all work until they can't and then die...
Grandparents on one side had a small Dairy Farm and worked it their entire lives until they passed...
Grandparents on the other side had a small retail business and they kept the doors open until they passed away... as was the case with my own Father...
He was in teaching and got out because he didn't like what the Teacher's Union was doing... he said it was no longer about the kids...
Sorry to hear you feel that way about our Veterans
For many it was not a choice... they were called to serve and they did...
For others, it was a choice which they willing accepted...
Either way, I personally feel a debt of gratitude to the sacrifices they and their families have made...
Washington taxes are very hard for small business, and by that I mean the really small ones. It is one of only 3 states in the country that tax on gross sales. That may not mean much to folks with a high profit margin on their product, but it is "killer" on those of us who work for ourselves, freelance, etc. I was a web site developer, was constantly in demand, but went out of business, because I could not compete against those outside the state and often, outside the country, who would do just about any job for $5-6 per hour. I tried doing other design work, even creating and selling items, but unless I put a high markup on my product, I couldn't afford to pay the taxes and take an income from my business.
As an example, and this is very simplified, if you make an item that costs you $90 in materials and overhead (but not wages), and to be competitive, you find you must sell it for $100, there is $10 profit there, ostensibly this is your wages, yes? But the state of WA will tax you on the entire $100, and that $10 is GONE, and more besides... so you are operating in the red... Oh, wait! The state is getting paid, and someone is getting a product, so who cares if you are working for free and donating money besides? You have no health insurance, you are still required to pay into the Social Security and Medicare system, unemployment, etc., but unless your spouse or significant other is earning a high income, and you want or need the tax loss from your "business", you are going to be living in a cardboard box soon.
So, you try to cut your costs of production, but maybe no one wants to buy your cheaper product at the same original price, and/or you don't like making and selling low quality, "production goods". Either way, you're soon done for. The IRS will tell you that you must show a minimal profit within 2 more years, or you don't have a business, you have a "hobby", and disallows your write-off. WA shrugs and says, "there are more suckers to start businesses out there, what do we care?"... I have discussed this with a number of respected accountants and they concur that this is an ongoing issue in this state.
And then people eventually move out of the state, because they want to have a better life and don't want to earn a living based on trying to figure out how much they can squeeze out of their fellow man, in order to pay their taxes and live, without working 18 out of 24 hours, 7 days a week. We are educated. We don't want a free ride, just a fair one.
IOwning a piece of property is not a free ride... paying 3 times the property tax of another simply because your home has a nice view/setting because the your good stewardship should not become a hardship simply because someone down the road has lots of money to throw around...
I don't see why not. It's supply and demand. The one with the nice view/setting is consuming something in high demand. They should have to pay an ongoing consumption tax for that.
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Paying your own way should extend to all aspects... if I have a fire and the fire department arrives... I would have no problem paying for the service... you can even get insurance for this... same goes for 911 ambulance service... school buses and most of all... schools. Since public schools consume the greatest portion of property tax without regard to benefit received... at least have a voucher system that has a proven track record, as in Washington DC. Isn't it true that some 40% of WA High School Students fail to graduate and yet we keep sending money to support this failed system?
People benefit from fire departments even if they never have a fire (they effectively get insurance). People benefit from schools even if they never have children (they get labor to lower prices, and future leaders). Kids learn something up to the point they drop out, so it's not a total failure.
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I have no problem with a tax on earnings or even a tax on consumption... an individual does have some control of their earning and spending... but, I will never acquiesce to a State that can't even provide a modicum of predictability in it's property tax system... I will continue sounding the alarm in deed and through action. How can a tax that the payer can't even determine or anticiapte be Fair? I know exactly what the tax is when a go to the store... this is Fair.
I see them as about the same. You don't have control on whether prices at the store triple, in which case your sales tax triples too. Same for property prices.
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I ask... is it Fair that one Judge can over ride the will of the voters?
Of course it can be fair. The judge's job is to overrule anything that is unconstitutional. WA voters can change the state constitution if they don't like the overruling. Or they can support a cleaner initiative. Voters can't have anything they want, a limit put in place by previous voters.
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Maybe WA no income tax policy is set up so everyday people subsidize the Rich?
Quite possibly. I'd like to see an overhaul in our tax structure, that puts more burden on the rich. The rich get the lion's share of services per capita, and aren't paying their fair share, in my book. If we had a major overhaul of gov't practices I think we could have sustainability, like the socialist nations do (at least to a much greater extent than here).
Either way, I personally feel a debt of gratitude to the sacrifices they and their families have made...
So do I, at least for the ones who truly protected and served (many US military actions are to benefit the wealthy only). There's a limit to my gratitude.
Washington taxes are very hard for small business, and by that I mean the really small ones. It is one of only 3 states in the country that tax on gross sales.
If business taxes were on net income, safe to say major corporations would pay little to no state tax. They'd always find a detour through creative accounting. So I support a system that bypasses creative accounting. There could be a better way than the current system though.
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