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I wonder if the comparatively colder seas off the PNW are less conductive to rainclouds, resulting in a drier, sunnier climate for the PNW with cooler summers on the whole?
It would match the fact that Chile's oceanic zone, under the powerful influence of the Humbolt, also experiences a similar summer dry season.
The Canary Current and Gulf Stream are two separate currents; the Gulf Stream affects north of 45°, the Canary south. The waters off Washington / Southern BC are about the same temperature in the summer as the California current or a little warmer.
I'm thinking if the PNW had waters that were similar to the Gulf Stream, the summers would be a bit wetter and warmer.
As far as I remember, the Pacific off southern California (south of Santa Barbara) is much warmer than the Pacific off WA/OR. In midsummer SST are often near 70 F off San Diego, and near 66 – 68 F off Santa Monica Pier….while they never get much above 58 F off the coast of the PNW. Keep in mind there is a big difference between SST in shallow tidal waters and true surf/off shore SST.
Intriguing! It does look a lot like SF, with a degree added on each side.
Notable differences:
SF's greater record low, despite higher winter temps.
Earlier summer maximum in Figueira de Foz; it doesn't have that strong seasonal lag.
Wet and dry seasons are far less pronounced in Figueira de Foz, with very similar rainfall.
Figueira de Foz does look similar to San Francisco, perhaps the closest I've seen (outside of California of course). Though, there's probably a station in Chile that's like San Francisco. Still, Figueira de Foz has warmer summer minimums. It's interesting that San Francisco has recorded 100°F from April–October, while Figueira de Foz only has in July. Probably because San Francisco is at a lower latitude (40° vs 38°) and isn't far from a continental areas that get very hot in the summer.
I thought it was interesting the article mentioned Figueira de Foz commonly gets a NW wind in the summer. On most of the US West Coast, a strong N/NW wind is common in the summer. I wonder if Figueira de Foz is as fog prone as San Francisco.
Keep in mind that the San Francisco station listed in Wikipedia is in the warmest, sunniest part of the city. It's on the east side, away from the Pacific and hills partially block the cold and fog coming off the Pacific. It's one of the first places for fog and cloud to burn away. Here's what the weather is on the opposite side of the city (one of the last place for the fog to burn off; some summer days it's cloudy the entire day):
As far as I remember, the Pacific off southern California (south of Santa Barbara) is much warmer than the Pacific off WA/OR. In midsummer SST are often near 70 F off San Diego, and near 66 – 68 F off Santa Monica Pier….while they never get much above 58 F off the coast of the PNW. Keep in mind there is a big difference between SST in shallow tidal waters and true surf/off shore SST.
Yea, I was ignoring Southern California. Should have typed it a bit more carefully.
San Diego has the highest dew points in the American West, the only place that gets "east coast" humidity; though in a mild form. Average Sept dew point is about 60°F, not sticky but definitely not the dry levels found in the rest of the West. Actually only a couple degrees lower than Upstate NY.
Aside from the great Canary Island Date palm debate ( ), it's worth noting that coastal BC has many, many palm trees that are happy and healthy. Hardy New Zealand species can be found as far north as the Alaska panhandle.
Palm trees are common garden plants in oceanic climates, even on the cool end.
As for the Canary Island Date palm, I've been reading up on its habits thanks to this thread, and other than mild winters, dry soil also springs up as a qualification. As most gardeners know ( and oceanic climate gardeners especially, with those deceptively high hardiness zones ), it takes more than mild winters for a species to grow succesfully. This is probably why it can stand Las Vegas cold snaps better than PNW cold snaps.
A similar example would be some palmetto species that can stand freezing winters if they get hot, humid summers but sulk in northern California due to cool summers.
The PNW is clearly more vulnerable to cold snaps than England, however. Victoria ( and Vancouver Island as a whole ) isn't really comparable to England, as the North Sea is much, much larger and deeper than Haro and Rosario straights that separate Victoria from eastern air masses.
As for Alaska versus Norway, it strikes me that that great mass of land blocks most of the westerly warming influence that open ocean might otherwise give. There's about a thousand kilometers of Atlantic between Norway and Greenland at their narrowest point, but less than a hundred between Alaska and Russia. Murmansk still has a lot of Atlantic westerly influence; Barrow just faces the Arctic.
Also, if water from the Gulf of Mexico is what protects Europe from chill, how come Alesund, at 62 north, has a warmer record low than Corpus Christy, at 27 north and right on the Gulf itself?
All these are just musings of course. Clearly the only way to settle this is to shut off the Gulf stream. Who's with me?
One new question this debate has brought up is - if the Rocky Mountains channel cold from the north, then why are the western Prairies so much warmer than the eastern ones? One would think that the Rocky mountain influence would be strongest near places adjacent to them, but Medicine Hat is considerably warmer than Winnipeg.
I was looking at London, UK and Victoria, BC during their coldest record months in recent times.. December 2010 for London and December 2008 for Victoria and to me they look almost identical. London, like Victoria is also very moist and humid due to being oceanic so it can't be because one has a lot of more moisture than the other.
I'm surprised the CIDPs in London didn't bite the dust due to that weather unless there is something I'm missing..
I was looking at London, UK and Victoria, BC during their coldest record months in recent times.. December 2010 for London and December 2008 for Victoria and to me they look almost identical. London, like Victoria is also very moist and humid due to being oceanic so it can't be because one has a lot of more moisture than the other.
I'm surprised the CIDPs in London didn't bite the dust due to that weather unless there is something I'm missing..
I clicked on both links, and forgetting what they were about, just glanced at the numbers and thought, "That doesn't look like a bad winter". Incredibly small diurnal range.
I'm impressed those are the worst winters they get; I forgot how the mild the winters of high latitude maritime climates are.
I was looking at London, UK and Victoria, BC during their coldest record months in recent times.. December 2010 for London and December 2008 for Victoria and to me they look almost identical. London, like Victoria is also very moist and humid due to being oceanic so it can't be because one has a lot of more moisture than the other.
I'm surprised the CIDPs in London didn't bite the dust due to that weather unless there is something I'm missing..
Some of the UK exotic plant sites mention younger CIDPs dying in the south. I had thought the UK had a long run of mild winters that enabled trees to get to a size where that had better resistance to cold. I don't know how that compares to the situation in BC/PNW.
Some of the UK exotic plant sites mention younger CIDPs dying in the south. I had thought the UK had a long run of mild winters that enabled trees to get to a size where that had better resistance to cold. I don't know how that compares to the situation in BC/PNW.
Well I know that Victoria has not recorded a temperature below -10°C since 1990. Most years bottom out at around -5°C or -6°C. The record low is -15.6°C in 1968.
I saw this palm tree in Victoria BC. Anyone know what kind it is?
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), it's worth noting that coastal BC has many, many palm trees that are happy and healthy. Hardy New Zealand species can be found as far north as the Alaska panhandle.
