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Miami is obviously more comparable to Bangkok then Atlanta and Northern Florida look at the averages in those places and you'll see without a doubt...north Florida and Atlanta only compares to miami in summer ONLY outside of that looking at the averages they don't compare.
Notice that Bangkok doesn't even have a single month with an average high (much) below 90°F. Whereas all the others do. Combine that with a summer of pure equatorial ITCZ, and you can see how distinct it is from all the other locations.
But also notice that I actually am not grouping Miami with Atlanta either. I understand the sentiments here, the continental cold of Atlanta just has too severe impacts on the landscape and vegetation — Jacksonville is obviously less continental being closer to the coast. But through the use of genetics (i.e. prevailing wind patterns over the course of the year), you can see that both these SE US cities are very similar to Miami (i.e. even if their temperatures are different outside of summer).
Now, seeing that Miami is ocean-moderated at the tip of a peninsula, it's only fair that we try to compare apples and apples, right? And what better way to do that than to replace Atlanta (and Jacksonville) with an ocean-moderated proxy at similar latitude ... Bermuda! The results are clear, with Bermuda averaging highs around 70°F during the winter months, only slightly cooler than Miami's mid 70s, with lows of both areas being similar.
The natural environment in Miami looks far more like Bangkok than Atlanta. Cue NZ Joe.
Not disputing this, but what does the natural environment around Bangkok even look like? The area has been so heavily terraformed that I cannot tell.
Green Thailand (8375158130)
Michael Coghlan from Adelaide, Australia, CC BY-SA 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
For that matter, we've laid waste to much of SE Florida too.
PlantationEastbound
Yanjipy, CC BY-SA 4.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
Notice that Bangkok doesn't even have a single month with an average high (much) below 90°F. Whereas all the others do. Combine that with a summer of pure equatorial ITCZ, and you can see how distinct it is from all the other locations.
But also notice that I actually am not grouping Miami with Atlanta either. I understand the sentiments here, the continental cold of Atlanta just has too severe impacts on the landscape and vegetation — Jacksonville is obviously less continental being closer to the coast. But through the use of genetics (i.e. prevailing wind patterns over the course of the year), you can see that both these SE US cities are very similar to Miami (i.e. even if their temperatures are different outside of summer).
Now, seeing that Miami is ocean-moderated at the tip of a peninsula, it's only fair that we try to compare apples and apples, right? And what better way to do that than to replace Atlanta (and Jacksonville) with an ocean-moderated proxy at similar latitude ... Bermuda! The results are clear, with Bermuda averaging highs around 70°F during the winter months, only slightly cooler than Miami's mid 70s, with lows of both areas being similar.
So are Havana and Nassau more like Atlanta and Bermuda than. Bangkok?
Maputo, Mozambique is moderated by the Agulhas in a similar vein to Miami and the Gulf Stream? Is it more similar to Cape Town than Tanzania?
Why conveniently leave out the completely different wind pattern between Bermuda and Miami in the winter? Miami is predominantly easterly flow just like the Bahamas, Cuba, and Cancun...Bermuda shifts to a westerly flow. Why intentionally double back to temperatures and try to minimize the temperature difference? Bermuda avg January high is 69F, Miami is 76F, and Havana is 78F.
Miami also has means ~10 degrees warmer in March and April. You really need to let this Bermuda thing go. The wind patterns aren't the same and the temperatures aren't either.
So are Havana and Nassau more like Atlanta and Bermuda than. Bangkok?
Honestly, Havana and Nassau have a lot more of a winter cooldown than I thought. Combined with (some) frontal winter influence, and then Bermuda High/Trade summer influence, I absolutely will group them and Miami with Bermuda over summer ITCZ dominated Bangkok.
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Maputo, Mozambique is moderated by the Agulhas in a similar vein to Miami and the Gulf Stream? Is it more similar to Cape Town than Tanzania?
Absolutely not. Cape Town is Med.
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Why conveniently leave out the completely different wind pattern between Bermuda and Miami in the winter? Miami is predominantly easterly flow just like the Bahamas, Cuba, and Cancun...Bermuda shifts to a westerly flow. Why intentionally double back to temperatures and try to minimize the temperature difference? Bermuda avg January high is 69F, Miami is 76F, and Havana is 78F.
We'll have to see about the wind statistics regarding averages. Especially where the data is achieved — windfinder was a good one in the past, but the option has since been paywalled.
Anyway, there's certainly influences from localized sea-breezes and such that can add "noise" regarding the overall genetic trend — with water to Miami's east, any sea-breeze fronts pushing in will yield easterlies. That's also not getting into the fact regarding the mobile highs associated with US mid-latitude cyclones — where their passage east bring in "return flow" in the form of the easterlies. Which could be what influences Miami ... rather than honest to goodness "trades" around a subtropical high.
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Miami also has means ~10 degrees warmer in March and April.
True, as it should be for its equatorward location.
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You really need to let this Bermuda thing go. The wind patterns aren't the same and the temperatures aren't either.
Actually, it's all good. It's obviously not going to be a carbon-copy of Miami/Havana/Nassau given latitudinal difference. But I'm not really seeing where these similarities are to Bangkok, on the other side of the globe.
We'll have to see about the wind statistics regarding averages. Especially where the data is achieved — windfinder was a good one in the past, but the option has since been paywalled.
Anyway, there's certainly influences from localized sea-breezes and such that can add "noise" regarding the overall genetic trend — with water to Miami's east, any sea-breeze fronts pushing in will yield easterlies. That's also not getting into the fact regarding the mobile highs associated with US mid-latitude cyclones — where their passage east bring in "return flow" in the form of the easterlies. Which could be what influences Miami ... rather than honest to goodness "trades" around a subtropical high.
All you have to do is go look at some wind graphs, paywall not necessary. The NW shift of the Bermuda high as the warm season progresses is what funnels southeasterly flow from the tropical Atlantic/Caribbean into Bermuda and even into the mid-Atlantic and New England. Closer to winter, the pattern reverses as the Bermuda High treks to the southeast and nearly cuts off Bermuda from easterly flow. If anything is "tropical by technicality/oceanic moderation", it's Bermuda with its heavily moderated (thank the Gulf Stream) but un-tropical mid latitude westerly flow.
Miami remains far enough south for predominant easterly flow throughout the year. Continental fronts during the winter in Miami that briefly cut off this flow are the exception to the general circulation pattern which is easterly...around the semi-permanent subtropical Bermuda/Azores high .
Bermuda has a wind reversal due to seasonal shift in high pressure which is a distinctly different circulation pattern compared to Miami/Havana/the Bahamas/Cancun.
Miami/South Florida is more comparable to Northern Florida and Bermuda than to Bangkok or Atlanta.
Atlanta made the Tampa area look nice in the summer when we were there doing a job on Peach tree Street back in June of 1986. It was the worst heat i ever felt vs the Tampa area. Then we did a job on the beach in NC in July of 1986 and the heat and dew points were so insane that is would make my area in FL blush it was so bad.
All you have to do is go look at some wind graphs, paywall not necessary. The NW shift of the Bermuda high as the warm season progresses is what funnels southeasterly flow from the tropical Atlantic/Caribbean into Bermuda and even into the mid-Atlantic and New England. Closer to winter, the pattern reverses as the Bermuda High treks to the southeast and nearly cuts off Bermuda from easterly flow. If anything is "tropical by technicality/oceanic moderation", it's Bermuda with its heavily moderated (thank the Gulf Stream) but un-tropical mid latitude westerly flow.
Miami remains far enough south for predominant easterly flow throughout the year. Continental fronts during the winter in Miami that briefly cut off this flow are the exception to the general circulation pattern which is easterly...around the semi-permanent subtropical Bermuda/Azores high .
Bermuda has a wind reversal due to seasonal shift in high pressure which is a distinctly different circulation pattern compared to Miami/Havana/the Bahamas/Cancun.
Yes, so summer SE flow around the high (aka trades) going into Bermuda. Westerlies in the winter that grow that grow weaker/briefer in influence heading farther south into Miami and nearby islands.
I best, you can say the genetics of Miami + islands are in between those of the northerly Bermuda, and the equatorward Bangkok. But ~25°N Miami ... closer to ~32°N Bermuda (7 degree difference) compared to 13°N Bangkok (12 degree difference) — I will still stick with Bermuda for now.
Just curious. What are the reasons that you feel Bangkok is the answer?
Just curious. What are the reasons that you feel Bangkok is the answer?
Would you group Hanoi or Haikou (or even further south like Hue or Luang Prabang) with Atlanta rather than Bangkok? If yes, it's inconsistent to not place Miami with Bangkok if you consider all of the places above to be closer to Bangkok. All are dominated by easterly flow in the winter as well unlike Atlanta or Bermuda.
You went from temperatures to circulation to latitude? Is it really that relevant? Miami matches the January mean at 21*N in Veracruz and just south of the 17th parallel in Vietnam.
Would you group Hanoi or Haikou (or even further south like Hue or Luang Prabang) with Atlanta rather than Bangkok? If yes, it's inconsistent to not place Miami with Bangkok if you consider all of the places above to be closer to Bangkok. All are dominated by easterly flow in the winter as well unlike Atlanta or Bermuda.
Interesting bringing those two Asian cities up, because they are actually the inverse of the situation in Miami — those two are subtropical (cwa) with core equatorial tropical genetics. The ITCZ does extend influence through Vietnam and southern China, hence the much heavier summer rainfall in Hong Kong versus Miami, Bermuda, and the Carribean.
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You went from temperatures to circulation to latitude? Is it really that relevant? Miami matches the January mean at 21*N in Veracruz and just south of the 17th parallel in Vietnam.
Oh no, I'm still sticking with circulations as the main argument — it's just that those latitudinal relationships underscored the point
No worries though. I don't dispute Miami's Koppen tropical (am), and the flora and fauna certainly don't care, so far rainfall and temperatures are adequate. You are a friend with great interest — therefore, we come to mutual end.
Kind of a tangential question, but does anybody know why the wet season in central Vietnam happens so late in the calendar year, i.e. September-December? It seems different from the rest of East Asia and is even quite different from the rest of Vietnam.
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